BMW Hypoid Axle Oil G3 (Part # 83-22-2-413-512)

[Audi403]

Hey guys,

I'm looking for the oil recommended in the owners manual for the final drive in my 2019 R1250RT. My dealer told me they don't carry it and it might be discontinued as there are no quantities available to order from Germany. I found it online but it's going to cost me roughly $85 USD with shipping to Canada for only a 500mL bottle, and that's before customs/duites! Was this product discontinued and all that's left is marked up old stock? 

My dealer says they use 75W-90 BMW Synthetik OSP (Part # 83-22-2-365-987). I can get a liter of it for about $50 CAD. This makes it roughly 25% of what it would cost me to run the specified Hypoid Axle G3. I read on another forum that this is likely the same as Castrol SAF-XO.

I'm wondering if I'd be better off just finding another brand of synthetic hypoid gear oil with the GL-5 rating and 70W-80 weight specified in my manual? It seems odd to run a 75W-90 when the manual calls for 70W-80. I just bought this bike from a dealership a few hundred km's away. I got them to send me the service records which stated the final drive fluid was changed at the first service with 180mL OSP 75W90, in the description it says "Synthetik OSP Castrol".

What are you guys running? BMW obviously doesn't make oil and is just relabeling and selling other oil at a premium. But curious if you've stuck with the 70W-80 or moved to the 75W-90 as well?

[Dave_in_TX]

The final drive one 1250 is the same as in the liquid cooled 1200 for which BMW specified 75W90.

[Tech1]

This is what has been shared by others as a compatible and recommended lube, Castrol Syntrax Long Life 75W-90:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004UD9T0A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pldnSite=1

 

[Dave_in_TX]

There is an older thread on this. Mopar makes a 70W80 axle lube that appears to meet the specification.

[Skywagon]

Call Bob's BMW and they will steer you the correct way at reasonable price.

 

Read this above post and pay attention to what DR says about G3 branding versus G3 Rating.  See his picture and understand the standard is GL 5.  This should do you fine for $9.00

 

 

BMW Synthetic Final Drive Oil 75W-90, 7 oz | Bob's BMW (bobsbmw.com)

[Audi403]

18 hours ago, Dave_in_TX said:

The final drive one 1250 is the same as in the liquid cooled 1200 for which BMW specified 75W90.

Thanks that's good to know. I wonder why BMW changed the recommendation to 70W-80 but then didn't make the oil available to dealers in Canada. Both I've spoke to use the 75W-90 for their services.

 

11 hours ago, Tech1 said:

This is what has been shared by others as a compatible and recommended lube, Castrol Syntrax Long Life 75W-90:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004UD9T0A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pldnSite=1

 

Thanks, unfortunately I can't seem to find this oil in Canada either. I found Castrol Syntec which is a full synthetic GL-5 gear oil but I'm not sure what the differences are between the two. I sent Castrol an email to find out.

 

5 hours ago, Dave_in_TX said:

There is an older thread on this. Mopar makes a 70W80 axle lube that appears to meet the specification.

Yeah I saw that recommended in another thread. Mopar calls it synthetic axle lubricant and states that it's "only for use in rear drive module (common sump clutch & gear lube)". There is no mention of it's use with hypoid gears, I'd be concerned whether or not it has the correct additives for a motorcycle final drive?

 

3 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Call Bob's BMW and they will steer you the correct way at reasonable price.

 

Read this above post and pay attention to what DR says about G3 branding versus G3 Rating.  See his picture and understand the standard is GL 5.  This should do you fine for $9.00

 

 

BMW Synthetic Final Drive Oil 75W-90, 7 oz | Bob's BMW (bobsbmw.com)

 

Yeah I read that post already. It seemed like it went way off track though as a giant miscommunication. It seemed like the whole thing was just about how G3 isn't a specification like GL-5, but I don't think the OP was ever even confused about that.

 

The problem seems to be that not just any GL-5 gear oil with the recommended weight is necessarily going to have the correct additives for the application. An example I've just found is Redlines gear oil. They have 75W-90 and 75W-90NS. They're both the same weight, both GL-5 gear oil, but the former is for differentials and the latter is for manual transmissions. 

 

I'll take your advice and reach out to BobsBMW and see what their advice is. I'm leaning towards just using the BMW 75W-90 that the dealer recommended. 50 bucks but it'll get me 5+ fluid changes, can't really go wrong there. My concern was just that the weight is different than the 70W-80 Hypoid G3 product.

[Audi403]

So I noticed today that Redline 75W-90 synthetic gear oil states that it's recommended for BMW SAF-XO/SAFX-LS on the bottle. It also lists API-GL-5, MIL-L-2105E, and SAE J2360 specs. Would this meet or exceed the requirements for the final drive?

 

 

[Audi403]

Hey guys, so just an update on this. I've reached out to Castrol and Redline. Castrol has informed me that Syntrax Long Life 75W-90 is not available in Canada. Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip was formerly known as Castrol Syntec. This version would obviously have an LS additive in it. From what I've read LS additives shouldn't cause any issue in final drives but on another forum there was someone worried about it being too slick and possibly causing seepage. I haven't heard of anyone experiencing this though and read of a few guys running Mobil 1 75W-90 LS in their final drives with no issue. I also found out the difference between Redline 75W-90 and 75W-90NS is simply just an LS additive and the 75W-90NS is still safe for open differentials. 

 

I did find on Bimmerworld that SAF-XO and BMW Synthetik OSP (83222365987) are interchangeable. The fact that Redline is stating the SAF-XO compatible on their bottle would tell me this should be fine to run.

 

Additionally I've found this viscosity chart comparing different gear oils viscosities. I added some oils and modified some of the numbers with the most recent product data sheets from the manufacturers. 

 

Castrol SAF-XO (OEM Factory Fill)
=====================
Viscosity 40C: 100 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.2 cSt
Viscosity Index: 160

Castrol Syntrax 75W90
===============
Viscosity 40C: 117 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15 cSt
Viscosity Index: 139

RedLine Gear Oil 75W90
===============
Viscosity 40C: 115 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 16.4 cSt
Viscosity Index: 155

 

RedLine Gear Oil 75W90NS
===============
Viscosity 40C: 89 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.6 cSt
Viscosity Index: 185

Castrol Syntrax Long Life 75W90 (OEM replacement)
================================
Viscosity 40C: 103 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.7 cSt
Viscosity Index: 162

Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lubricant LS 75W-90
===========================
Viscosity 40C: 103 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 14.6 cSt
Viscosity Index: 146

AMSOIL Severe Gear Lubricant 75W-90
=========================
Viscosity 40C: 102.4 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.9 cSt
Viscosity Index: 166

Motul Gear 300 75W-90
===============
Viscosity 40C: 72.6 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 15.2 cSt
Viscosity Index: 222

 

So from looking at this I think I'll probably go with the Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-90. It has almost identical properties to the Syntrax Long Life (factory replacement for SAF-XO) and it has a slightly higher Viscosity Index (better). It also doesn't appear to have any limited slip additives which means it's extremely comparable to the SAF-XO.

 

I know people don't like oil threads but if anyone has anything to add it would be appreciated.

[Audi403]

Alright last update, after even more research I've found Redline 75W-85 is claiming OEM compatibility with BMW Castrol BOT 448, BMW Hypoid Axle Oil G1, BMW Hypoid Axle Oil G2, BMW Hypoid Axle Oil G3, and BMW Hypoid Axle Oil G4. This includes the following BMW part numbers: 
83 12 0 445 838
83 22 2 295 532
83 22 2 413 511
83 22 2 413 512
83 22 2 447 362

Here's the viscosity specs for the oil:

Redline 75W85 GL-5 GEAR OIL
===============
Viscosity 40C: 68 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 12 cSt
Viscosity Index: 171
 

This oil does contain a friction modifier to make it compatible with LSDs. The viscosities are obviously lower than the 75W90 oils but these specs are probably much closer to the recommended 70W-80 Hypoid G3 than a 75W-90 oil would be. This oil lists compatibility with the Hypoid G3 fluid recommended in my owners manual.

I guess at the end of the day if BMW has recommended both 70W-80 and 75W-90, either would be fine. Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-90 appears to almost identically match the specs of Castrol Syntrax Long Life which is the OEM replacement for SAF-XO. Redline recommends their 75W-85 as an alternative to the 70W-80 BMW Hypoid G3. I can't find any specs for the Hypoid G3 oil so hard to say how much of a difference there is. 

 

I just sent an email to BMW asking why there was a change in the recommended weight from 75W-90 down to a 70W-80. I told them my dealers can't get their Hypoid G3 Oil and recommended the 75W90. Interested to hear what they say...

[6speedTi]

Has anyone looked into liqui moly products? They have a 75w/90 in both GL4  and GL5 ratings. GL4 is for gearboxes and final drives that do not call for the LS additive.  GL5 is for differentials that requires a LS additive. I use their GL4 75w/90 in my differential on my 2012 which BMW calls out a non limited slip oil. I can't compare gearboxes since I have a Camhead. 

[realshelby]

Don't assume a "heavier" viscosity is better. 

 

Hypoid gear meshing points are happy with a higher viscosity. But when has anyone ever heard of a ring and pinion actually failing in these bikes?

 

Bearings don't care so much for heavier viscosity liquid lubricants. Can cause them to slide instead of rotate. Bearings with grease are a bit different as the grease only leaves a film, unlike the oils that are constantly flooding the bearings. Now how many bearing failures have we heard about........

[9Mary7]

Liqui-Moly makes the correct oil. It is labeled as motorbike gear oil. 

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/lm20086.htm

[Audi403]

6 hours ago, 6speedTi said:

Has anyone looked into liqui moly products? They have a 75w/90 in both GL4  and GL5 ratings. GL4 is for gearboxes and final drives that do not call for the LS additive.  GL5 is for differentials that requires a LS additive. I use their GL4 75w/90 in my differencial on my 2012 which BMW calls out a non limited slip oil. I can't compare gearboxes since I have a Camhead. 

 

Can't comment on the Liqui moly but I believe the fluids BMW recommends are all GL-5. I'd probably stick with a GL-5 over a GL-4

[Audi403]

6 hours ago, realshelby said:

Don't assume a "heavier" viscosity is better. 

 

Hypoid gear meshing points are happy with a higher viscosity. But when has anyone ever heard of a ring and pinion actually failing in these bikes?

 

Bearings don't care so much for heavier viscosity liquid lubricants. Can cause them to slide instead of rotate. Bearings with grease are a bit different as the grease only leaves a film, unlike the oils that are constantly flooding the bearings. Now how many bearing failures have we heard about........

 

Hmm maybe that's part of why BMW changed their recommendation to a 70W-80? I emailed BMW Canada and all they told me was they don't provide any technical assistance and that I should reach out to an authorized service center...which I have. They recommended to just run the BMW 75W-90 OSP Synthetik as they couldn't get the 70W-90 Hypoid G3.

 

So now I'm just debating whether or not to run to run a 75W-90, or something closer to the recommended 70W-80 in the manual.

 

Like I mentioned earlier Redline listed their 75W-85 as an OEM replacement for BMW Hypoid G3. Leaning towards running that.

 

If I go with 75W-90, I'll go with the Amsoil Severe Gear. It's specs are very similar to the Castrol SAF-XO. It's almost identical to Castrol Syntrax Long Life (the oem replacement for SAF-XO) that lots of guys run. Has no LS additive which matches up with the BMW fluid as well.

 

Other option is to just buy the $50 BMW fluid knowing that if I change it every 2 years, it'll still last 10 years. $5 / year is almost nothing in the long run. It just feels like such a money grab rip off though.

[BobW03]

I found gear oil at my local Chrysler dealer. 20.00 for a qt bottle.

Way back I had  t shirt that stated 'I get mine from a direct connection '

In reference to Mopar high performance factory parts.

[6speedTi]

3 hours ago, Audi403 said:

 

Can't comment on the Liqui moly but I believe the fluids BMW recommends are all GL-5. I'd probably stick with a GL-5 over a GL-4

I guess specifications have changed on the final drive since camhead days. My specs calls for non LS for final drive. Most if not all GL5 gear oils have the LS additive. My final recommendation is follow OEM specifications and compare to aftermarket products especially if your under warranty.  Looking at Liqui moly website both of their 75w/90 GL4 and GL5 products do not have the LS additive. That's good. Now I remember why I use their products so often. 

 

https://products.liqui-moly.com/high-performance-gear-oil-gl4-sae-75w-90-2.html

 

 

https://products.liqui-moly.com/fully-synthetic-gear-oil-gl5-sae-75w-90-2.html

 

 

 

[Audi403]

3 hours ago, 6speedTi said:

I guess specifications have changed on the final drive since camhead days. My specs calls for non LS for final drive. Most if not all GL5 gear oils have the LS additive. My final recommendation is follow OEM specifications and compare to aftermarket products especially if your under warranty.  Looking at Liqui moly website both of their 75w/90 GL4 and GL5 products do not have the LS additive. That's good. Now I remember why I use their products so often. 

 

https://products.liqui-moly.com/high-performance-gear-oil-gl4-sae-75w-90-2.html

 

 

https://products.liqui-moly.com/fully-synthetic-gear-oil-gl5-sae-75w-90-2.html

 

 

 

Yeah, as far as I know Castrol SAF-XO was the previously recommended oil for our engines. It is a GL-5 75W-90 with no LS additive. The newly recommended 70W-80 Hypoid G3 is also a GL-5 oil. There's very limited info on it other than it's recommended for open / non-locking diffs. So it likely doesn't contain an LS additive either.

 

You say to follow OEM specifications, which would normally make sense, except the authorized BMW service centre's in my province don't carry 70W-80 Hypoid G3. They recommend the BMW Synthetik OSP 75W-90. This is obviously a different weight than the recommended oil. I reached out to BMW directly and they told me they don't offer technical support and to reach out to my local authorized service center.

 

I looked up the specs for the Liqui-Moly 75W-90 GL-5 oil you mentioned. Here it is:

 

Liqui Moly Synthetic 75W-85 GL-5
===============
Viscosity 40C: 80.0 cSt
Viscosity 100C: 14.3 cSt
Viscosity Index: 185

 

So you can see if the goal is the get as similar to the previously recommended 75W-90 SAF-XO, Amsoil Severe Gear is still the closest. It also doesn't contain an LS additive.

[Audi403]

4 hours ago, BobW03 said:

I found gear oil at my local Chrysler dealer. 20.00 for a qt bottle.

Way back I had  t shirt that stated 'I get mine from a direct connection '

In reference to Mopar high performance factory parts.

Awesome, thanks for the part number. I had found it online but wasn't sure if I'd be able to find it local. Maybe I'll call some Chrysler dealers and see if they can get it. As far as matching the current owners manual recommendation, this is the closest product available. It matches the SAE 70W-80 spec and is a GL-5 oil just like the Hypoid G3. Since Hypoid G3 isn't available, there should be absolutely no warranty concerns running this oil.

 

 

[9Mary7]

13 hours ago, Audi403 said:

there should be absolutely no warranty concerns running this oil

Just be aware that it does have the LS additive in it.

[Audi403]

On 8/4/2021 at 8:05 AM, 9Mary7 said:

Just be aware that it does have the LS additive in it.

Nowhere in my manual does it state the fluid used must not contain LS additive. From what I've read there were some suspicions LS additive could cause leaks but from what I've read from people actually using fluids with LS additives, there isn't any difference. One interesting thing is Redline recommends their 75W-85 as a replacement for 70W-80 Hypoid G3, and their product definitely contains an LS additive. I'm sure they wouldn't recommend it as an OEM replacement if the additive was going to cause any damage.

 

Just an update on the Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-90...I emailed Amsoil to ask about it. They recommended NOT to use it as a replacement for either BMW Hypoid G3 70W-80 or BMW 75W-90 OSP Synthetik. I replied back and asked why, explaining how they're both GL-5 and appear to have very similar specs. I'll let you know what they say. 

 

I just sent Mopar an email and asked if they'd recommend their product as a replacement for 70W-80 Hypoid G3 or not...I also just emailed my authorized BMW service center and asked if there are any concerns if I use the Mopar product.

[Audi403]

Hey guys, so here's the word from my BMW service center:

 

"He said the Mopar 70W-80 would be ok. He mentions any full synthetic hypoid 70W-80 would work in your application. The "G3" is simply BMW marketing and does not have to do with oil specifications. What would matter is the GL-5, as it has to do with additives being compatible with the metals in the application but according to him you could run GL-4 or GL-5 in your application.

 

He told me, the reason there has been a change in the BMW oil we carry from BMW is due to BMW jumping from Shell to Castrol and vice versa. These oil manufactures change the formula weight slightly but, again, will still work in your application."