'04 R1150RT starter

[kruuuzn]

The 35,000 mile old girl almost let me down this afternoon when I stopped for a burger in the middle of a 160 mile trip. When I tried to start it she rolled over slowly and erratically. The first thing you suspect is a bad battery so I tried to push start it. When that didn't work I tried the starter again. It didn't just roll over slowly like a low battery but kind of hit and miss. Luckily enough she fired up. That's when I began thinking about the starter. Once I got home and in the garage I tried it again and you can hear extra noise like the bendix spinning.

 

I've been down this road before. I had the same issue back at 30,000 miles so I replaced the battery. When that didn't fix it I replaced the starter with a new one from Euro Motoelectrics.

 

Is it common for these bikes to go thru starters like this?

 

And for further reference; is it even POSSIBLE to push start this bike?

 

[Michaelr11]

Yes, they can be bump started. 2nd or 3rd gear.

 

Shouldn’t go through starters that quickly.  Is that starter from EME still under warranty?  It’s possible that you just got a bad starter.

Can you attach a jumper cable to a good battery just to make sure that the battery didn’t fail early, because a battery can develop a short or a partially open connection inside between the plates. Put a meter on the battery and try to start, what does the voltage drop down to as it tries to start?

 

If you decide to replace the battery, check out DB Electrical. I have a replacement starter from them, $60. Been installed for about four years and about 40k miles, probably more.

[Skywagon]

Your starter is likely gummed up with grease and other crap.  The 1150RT's and the one I had did the same thing.  I took the starter off, cleaned the starter drive and all the grease out of it and it ran like new. Mine had even started to squeal occasionally. There is a thread somewhere from years ago here on how to remove and clean it.  I think Mitch posted it but I don't remember.  It's a really simple job.  Give that a try before you start buying new parts.

 

 

[chrisolson]

4 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

That's when I began thinking about the starter. Once I got home and in the garage I tried it again and you can hear extra noise like the bendix spinning.

 

Depending on your level of willingness to go the DIY route   - vs. buying another

 

Try this ... courtesy of our member RightSpin

 

BMWStarterService.pdf

[taylor1]

My starter acting up on the 1150 rt about 10 years ago. Used this exact procedure, and @ 50,000 miles later , all is good.

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

The 35,000 mile old girl almost let me down this afternoon when I stopped for a burger in the middle of a 160 mile trip. When I tried to start it she rolled over slowly and erratically. The first thing you suspect is a bad battery so I tried to push start it. When that didn't work I tried the starter again. It didn't just roll over slowly like a low battery but kind of hit and miss. Luckily enough she fired up. That's when I began thinking about the starter. Once I got home and in the garage I tried it again and you can hear extra noise like the bendix spinning.

 

I've been down this road before. I had the same issue back at 30,000 miles so I replaced the battery. When that didn't fix it I replaced the starter with a new one from Euro Motoelectrics.

 

Is it common for these bikes to go thru starters like this?

 

And for further reference; is it even POSSIBLE to push start this bike?

 

Morning   kruuuzn

 

It is possible to push start your BMW 1150 but it sure isn't easy. It is darn near impossible to push start by yourself as the large piston high compression BMW engine just has too much compression braking to get the engine spinning.  A little downhill, 2 pushers (or one strong one) , & a battery that will stay above 10 volts during the bump start is usually required.    On the 6 speed 1150 bikes 4th gear is usually a good starting point for the bump start.

 

If the battery is marginal (needs to be at or above 10v at the clutch engagement point in the push (higher voltage is better). 

 

The headlight stays on with key-on on the 1150 bikes so removing the load relief relay until PUSH started can help if the battery voltage is on the low side.

 

With your battery AND starter being replaced just 5,000 miles ago my suggestion is to find out what caused your no-start before replacing parts or tearing a 5,000 mile starter apart. 

 

You should probably run a hot-engine voltage drop test on the starter (+) & (-) side circuits & a hot-engine engine "cranking"  battery voltage drop test after a hot engine soak. (might be something as simple as slipping alternator belt causing your problems)

 

Your problem is not your Bendix as the BMW 1100/1150 starter's do not use a Bendix,  they use a solenoid operated starter drive. 

 

What type/brand battery did you install? 

 

Your 2004 1150 should have the later (updated) ABS module that turns the rear servo off at standstill low braking pressure to prevent battery run-down in high braking event low engine RPM, (like slow inch along stop & go traffic).

 

 

 

   

[kruuuzn]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

 

From what I'm hearing I'm inclined to believe the problem is the starter. When I roll it over the starter is making sounds I've never hear before. It certainly doesn't sound like just a weak battery.

It's funny, even though I replaced the battery and starter just 5,000 miles ago, that was SEVEN years ago. With that amount of time I've had it in the back of my mind to be proactive and just replace the battery with a new one. They always seem to go bad when you're miles from home.

 

Dirtrider, the starter is a Valeo. Are they known to be reliable or not? I guess it's a definite possibility that it just went bad like Micheal mentioned.

 

I forgot to mention, when it wouldn't start I noticed the clock on the dash reset, like the battery was drawn right down to zero from the starter binding.

 

 

[wbw6cos]

A bad (or going bad) starter can wear down a good battery.

[taylor1]

After 7 years , I would certainly look at the battery first.

[Michaelr11]

Batteries don’t go by mileage, they go by time.  A seven year old battery is a doorstop.

 

Valeo starters have a weakness in the magnets.  If the adhesive fails the magnets fall into the mechanism and jam the starter.  A jammed starter will pull the voltage down and cause the clock to reset, but so will a bad battery.

[szurszewski]

I would also look at the battery first, but the symptoms you describe could also be a gummed up starter. The difference, in my limited experience, is that a bad battery will fail consistently where a gummy/dying starter will work great sometimes and then suddenly not work, and then work again...

[kruuuzn]

Yup, I agree. I didn’t realize how long it’s been since I changed that battery until I looked at my maintenance log last night. Man, time sure goes by in a hurry. 
Even if the starter IS going bad it’s time for a battery. What does everyone recommend? 

[Skywagon]

I must have been half reading..I didn't catch the part where the starter was replaced 5000 miles ago..  

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

Thanks everyone for the responses.

 

From what I'm hearing I'm inclined to believe the problem is the starter. When I roll it over the starter is making sounds I've never hear before. It certainly doesn't sound like just a weak battery.

It's funny, even though I replaced the battery and starter just 5,000 miles ago, that was SEVEN years ago. With that amount of time I've had it in the back of my mind to be proactive and just replace the battery with a new one. They always seem to go bad when you're miles from home.

 

Dirtrider, the starter is a Valeo. Are they known to be reliable or not? I guess it's a definite possibility that it just went bad like Micheal mentioned.

 

I forgot to mention, when it wouldn't start I noticed the clock on the dash reset, like the battery was drawn right down to zero from the starter binding.

 

 

Morning   kruuuzn

 

With 7 years on that battery "THAT" is definitely where I would start (a new battery replacement). With the clock re-setting at cranking attempt that is a definite sign of the battery not providing enough cranking current.

 

It might not be your total problem but at 7 years the battery needs to be replaced anyway.

 

Not enough battery power to keep the starter fully engaged can make the starter  give you some very strange noises. 

 

So get a new battery in that motorcycle THEN see where you stand on starter function. 

 

The old original OEM Valeo starters did have some magnet problems with the magnets coming loose but for the most part the aftermarket replacement Valeo starters didn't  have that problem. 

 

 

 

 

[kruuuzn]

That makes perfect sense to me.

Is there anything in particular I should be looking for in a new battery?

Has there been any new battery developments in the past seven years? LOL

[9Mary7]

I have had great service life from US made Yuasa batteries.

[Michaelr11]

11 hours ago, 9Mary7 said:

I have had great service life from US made Yuasa batteries.

Yeah, so many folks love the Odyssey AGM battery, but I don’t either. Yuasa, YT19BL-BS is an AGM battery delivered dry, with an acid pack included (bs, bottle supplied). So, you get a battery that is the freshest possible. I have one in my 1100RT for almost four years now, still fast easy starting. I will definitely replace it with another one.

 

The other plus for the Yuasa, is that the cables attach without any twisting or extensions.

[kruuuzn]

I just took the battery out and it’s an Odyssey Extreme PC680 and there’s a Battery Plus sticker on it. I was on the road at the time in the next state so I wasn’t real choosy at the time.

 

I looked up the Yuasa on their website. It gives a width of 3-3/16” wide. My battery box is an even 3” wide. If their sizes are correct it wouldn’t fit in my bike.

 

And the Odyssey has the perfect connection for my cables also with vertical tapped holes.

[dirtrider]

18 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

I just took the battery out and it’s an Odyssey Extreme PC680 and there’s a Battery Plus sticker on it. I was on the road at the time in the next state so I wasn’t real choosy at the time.

 

I looked up the Yuasa on their website. It gives a width of 3-3/16” wide. My battery box is an even 3” wide. If their sizes are correct it wouldn’t fit in my bike.

 

And the Odyssey has the perfect connection for my cables also with vertical tapped holes.

Morning  kruuuzn

 

The upside is, the Odyssey PC 680 is a much better (premium material) battery than the Yussa but it is more expensive. 

 

The downside to the PC 680 is that your motorcycle's charging system doesn't put out quite enough voltage to keep the PC 680 FULLY charged without installing a higher-voltage-output voltage regulator. The PC 680 works for years in an 1150 motorcycle even at the lower charged state but for max battery life & max battery efficiency it needs a higher voltage  output charging system, or a battery charger that has a charging cycle & output that can properly top off the PC 680. 

 

The  Yuasa YT19BL-BS is listed for your 1150 motorcycle so it should fit OK,  the dimensions given are for the maximum  width (that includes the overhanging lip at the top) so the battery's  BASE footprint is slightly slightly narrower & slightly shorter than the given max overall width & length dimensions.     

 

 

 

  

 

 

[kruuuzn]

I put a new Odyssey PC680 battery in tonight and I gotta say it doesn't seem to roll over as you would expect with a new battery. It still seems to be kind of slow and has a whirling noise when it disengages. It doesn't sound any different then from before.

I'm second guessing myself now. I THINK it sounds slow. I THINK the whirling noise is new. But I'm pretty sure it used to spin the motor much faster during start up.

I guess I'm still paranoid from the first time the starter began acting up and almost left me stranded.

 

[Skywagon]

Can you try and post an audio...those don't work great but some of us might be able to tell if you speed sounds normal or slow.  Was the battery fully charged or did you put it in out of the box.  DR or someone will tell you Odyssey has a bit different needs for charging.  I've never owned one so no help.

[taylor1]

Sounds like it's time to try the procedure chrisolson posted for you .

[dirtrider]

13 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

I put a new Odyssey PC680 battery in tonight and I gotta say it doesn't seem to roll over as you would expect with a new battery. It still seems to be kind of slow and has a whirling noise when it disengages. It doesn't sound any different then from before.

I'm second guessing myself now. I THINK it sounds slow. I THINK the whirling noise is new. But I'm pretty sure it used to spin the motor much faster during start up.

I guess I'm still paranoid from the first time the starter began acting up and almost left me stranded.

 

Morning  kruuuzn

 

The large piston BMW boxer engines don't spin over real fast (especially with cold thick oil in them).

 

Get the battery fully charged then ride it a little, then re-access the starting speed & noise issues.

 

You might try putting a voltmeter across the battery posts then see what your voltage drops to during engine starting (try this both cold engine & hot engine). With a new fully charged PC 680 you should see 11.0 volts plus during engine cranking.  

[kruuuzn]

I should have given more info on what I did last night.

 

I pulled the battery from the box, installed, and started the bike.

I then took it for a 45 minute ride, came back, and cycled the starter again.

In both cases the starter operated and sounded the same.

 

I left a battery charger on it last night. I'll try the voltage test when I get home tonight. I'm assuming if the starter has an issue it will draw the battery below 11 volts?

 

Thanks!!!

[TSConver]

11 minutes ago, kruuuzn said:

I should have given more info on what I did last night.

 

I pulled the battery from the box, installed, and started the bike.

I then took it for a 45 minute ride, came back, and cycled the starter again.

In both cases the starter operated and sounded the same.

 

I left a battery charger on it last night. I'll try the voltage test when I get home tonight. I'm assuming if the starter has an issue it will draw the battery below 11 volts?

 

Thanks!!!

If the starter is spinning it then it is probably the battery.  If the voltage drops below 11 volts that is a good sign it is loosing it CCA even if it chares to full.

[RPG]

37 minutes ago, kruuuzn said:

I should have given more info on what I did last night.

 

I pulled the battery from the box, installed, and started the bike.

I then took it for a 45 minute ride, came back, and cycled the starter again.

In both cases the starter operated and sounded the same.

 

I left a battery charger on it last night. I'll try the voltage test when I get home tonight. I'm assuming if the starter has an issue it will draw the battery below 11 volts?

 

Thanks!!!

Follow D.R.'s advice on the voltage check. If it's still making noise, pull the starter and do a refurbish. It isn't hard.

[kruuuzn]

I checked the voltage across the battery during cranking on a cold motor. I tried this several times.

The first time it spiked below 11 volts but the other times it never went below 11.

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, kruuuzn said:

I checked the voltage across the battery during cranking on a cold motor. I tried this several times.

The first time it spiked below 11 volts but the other times it never went below 11.

Morning  kruuuzn

 

How much did it drop below 11.0 volts?

 

Did the starter sound the same during the "under" 11v cranking vs the "above" 11v cranking?

 

 

 

 

[kruuuzn]

I tried the starter several times again when I got home from work, it never came close to going below 11 volt, and it always sounds the same. It looks like I may have been imagining an issue with the starter.

I'm going to put the tuperware back on and ride it with an attentive ear towards the starter. If I DO think I'm hearing the starter drag I'll pull the seat and do the voltage test again. I'm assuming it will go below 11 volts if the starter is dragging?

 

Thanks everyone for jumping in and giving me advice. I really appreciate it.

[dirtrider]

3 minutes ago, kruuuzn said:

I tried the starter several times again when I got home from work, it never came close to going below 11 volt, and it always sounds the same. It looks like I may have been imagining an issue with the starter.

I'm going to put the tuperware back on and ride it with an attentive ear towards the starter. If I DO think I'm hearing the starter drag I'll pull the seat and do the voltage test again. I'm assuming it will go below 11 volts if the starter is dragging?

 

Thanks everyone for jumping in and giving me advice. I really appreciate it.

Evening kruuuzn

 

With a new PC 680 the cranking voltage should stay above 11v for most warm weather starting if the starter is acting normally. In cold weather with 20w50 oil in the engine it might drop to 10v or so.

 

 

 

 

 

[szurszewski]

Just checking in to see if we fixed this bike yet - did a new battery find it’s way into the bike? Is the problem gone?

 

I was reminded of this because I just replaced the starter in my 2004 S this weekend. The bike has about 50,000 miles on it, and when it had about 45k I had a similar problem. I’d just replaced the battery, but I still thought that was the problem until I ran diagnostics on it. Turned out to be a gummed up starter - I cleaned it (but did not fully “rebuild” it) and it worked fine for about 5k miles spread over two year (I got a GS in that time!)...until two weeks ago when it started acting up again. It would start normally sometimes, start as if the battery were near dead others, and yet others not start at all. After putting in a new starter (with the same two-ish year old battery) it’s back to being perfect ;)

 

...I did opt for a $65 starter from amazon, so we’ll see how long that lasts....