Spline lube symptom?

[Knobby10]

Any symptoms show up indicating the splines need lubed? I don't remember lubing drive shaft splines on cars and they are not shielded as they are on the RT. I just wonder if it's such a big deal on an RT, I get it on a GS but not on an RT that has seen little water or any off pavement riding. I will anxiously wait to get "enlightened" by forum members. 

[dirtrider]

18 minutes ago, Knobby10 said:

Any symptoms show up indicating the splines need lubed? I don't remember lubing drive shaft splines on cars and they are not shielded as they are on the RT. I just wonder if it's such a big deal on an RT, I get it on a GS but not on an RT that has seen little water or any off pavement riding. I will anxiously wait to get "enlightened" by forum members. 

Afternoon Knobby10

 

No real symptoms, but some do seem to come from the factory with very little lube applied. 

 

It really isn't a big deal UNTIL you need to take it apart for some reason, if you have one with little factory lube, and/or one that has boots that allows moisture in, then you could end up with a rusty corroded mess that is extremely difficult to take apart & is a corroded mess once you do get it apart. 

 

At the very least (given your dry operating conditions)  I suggest that you pull the rear boot loose then see what that rear spline joint area looks like inside the rear boot.  

[cookie]

So would you say that if the rear splines look great, there is no particular reason to pull the shaft and look at the front ones? (I'm new to my wethead, but have owned other BMWs since the mid-80s.)

[dirtrider]

52 minutes ago, cookie said:

So would you say that if the rear splines look great, there is no particular reason to pull the shaft and look at the front ones? (I'm new to my wethead, but have owned other BMWs since the mid-80s.)

Afternoon  cookie

 

As a rule the front is usually better than the rear as it is higher & drier. 

[Alfred02]

It seems really sporadic. There were 2018 GS/GSA bikes with such high rust, that they needed driveshaft/final drive replacement, while at least one GS/GSA which was a 2014 model showed the rear to be in mint condition.

As mine is the original 2014 with very low mileage, I will be checking it soon, once a ton of tools and parts arrive. They are coming from all over the world, so ETA for the work is completely unknown.

So yes, I agree, if you want to check it, then personally I would be reluctant to pull the boot back, unless you have that expensive assembly grease " Staburacs NBU 30PTM". (One of the items I am waiting for, coming from the USA). Because once you pull back that boot, you now have broken the seal that might have been perfect and now you introduce a problem that didn't actually exist.

The other alternative is to buy a USB Bluetooth Endoscope camera that you can use with any iPhone/Android phone and use the large cutout underneath in the final drive to have a peak. They don't give you the best vision, but should be good enough to see if there is any large issue.

 

[Bernie]

2 hours ago, Alfred02 said:

The other alternative is to buy a USB Bluetooth Endoscope camera that you can use with any iPhone/Android phone and use the large cutout underneath in the final drive to have a peak. They don't give you the best vision, but should be good enough to see if there is any large issue.

 

Sorry to tell, that “cut out” doesn’t give you access to the drive shaft and rear drive spline area. The only way to access it is through the rubber boot. 

I am not sure what special tools you think you need to be able to drop the rear drive (swing down)?

It is a simple process. After finding out that my rear u-joint and spline where rusted together at 6,000 miles on my 2018 RT,  I have been re-lubing it every 12,000 miles. 
And no I don’t do river crossings or use a pressure washer to clean the bike. 
Boxflyer has a video to explain and demonstrate on how to do it.

 

 

 

[severely]

I looked at my 14 RT at 48K mikes and found the RD stuck to the driveshaft. I got it loose via WD40 and jumping on the rear brake hard a couple times, apparently first owner never got on the rear brake hard enough to make the splines go back and forth. After disassembly/ cleaning I lubed it up and plan to check/lube every other rear tire change. My dealer tells me they've had to replace the RD AND driveshaft on some that were stuck too badly. 

[Alfred02]

5 hours ago, Bernie said:

Sorry to tell, that “cut out” doesn’t give you access to the drive shaft and rear drive spline area. The only way to access it is through the rubber boot. 

I am not sure what special tools you think you need to be able to drop the rear drive (swing down)?

It is a simple process. After finding out that my rear u-joint and spline where rusted together at 6,000 miles on my 2018 RT,  I have been re-lubing it every 12,000 miles. 
And no I don’t do river crossings or use a pressure washer to clean the bike. 
Boxflyer has a video to explain and demonstrate on how to do it.

 

 

 

Yes, I forgot that the boot seals all the way.

No, the special tools are to do a more extensive service. These tools include BMW crankshaft Lock, Camchain Tensioner and the Camshaft locking tool to insure that the camshaft sprockets are timed properly.

For material I have a set of Rocker cover gaskets, spark plugs, final drive oil etc.

[simskid]

Question re spline lube...On my 09 RT I dropped the rear drive and the drive shaft came with it.  After about 8 hours of work and disassembly.  I was able to get the drive shaft back in place - couldn't just push it back in the drive shaft housing.   I now have a 16 RT.  I hesitate to drop the final since I had such a problem on the 09.  Should I have the same concern on the 16 if the drive shaft comes loose while dropping the final or can the drive shaft be push back into place?

 

Thoughts?

 

John

[Alfred02]

Follow this thread: r1200gsw-lc-wethead-final-drive-change-and-spline-lube-pictorial

I know it talks about the GS/GSA's but our bikes are literally the same. We just have to add removing the muffler to get the rear wheel off.

[LAF]

2 hours ago, Alfred02 said:

Follow this thread: r1200gsw-lc-wethead-final-drive-change-and-spline-lube-pictorial

I know it talks about the GS/GSA's but our bikes are literally the same. We just have to add removing the muffler to get the rear wheel off.

Yes Jim been on this for many years.  If you look through the 85 pages you will see all kinds of various states of FD.  Including new 1250's.

 

This has been going on forever not just the last year or two.

[MikeB60]

Check out this thread.  Photos and Info... Click

[Forester]

John,

I suggest you watch the very nicely done video by Box Flyer on the process of lubing the rear splines.  The video is more comprehensive than just that, Brad talks a lot about other items to look for while you are performing this process...especially the importance of ensuring that the rubber boot is property snapped in place.  To address your other concern, when Brad drops the rear housing,  the engine side of the shaft comes out because the rear end of the spline is somewhat stuck in the rear drive.  No problem, he just pushes on the drive shaft and it "snaps" back into place on the engine side.  No big deal.  Brad's bike is a 2016RT, so it's your same model year (as it is mine).  

 

Here are Brad's videos on YouTube:   https://www.youtube.com/user/Boxflyer11

Forester

[simskid]

Forester,

 

Thanks a ton.  The answer I was looking for.  Couldn't just push the 09 driveshaft back into place.  I've traded em's with Brad- he lives close by as well.  All good.

 

Thanks again!  Love this site!

 

JOhn

[Cap]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:03 AM, Knobby10 said:

Any symptoms show up indicating the splines need lubed?.... I just wonder if it's such a big deal on an RT, ....

 

I have a new-to-me 2019 R1250RT with 8000 miles, and allegedly a dealer-performed service at 6000 miles.  The 6k service seems believable partly because the Hayes brakes had been replaced with Brembos when I picked it up in Chicago to ride it home to Colorado.  

 

So, today, I tried to drop the final drive and lube the splines.  And discovered that it is rusted solid.  The good news is that the final drive fluid was very clean -- suggesting again that the dealer might have replaced it at 6k.  On my 2017 RT, I dropped the FD at 10k miles, and it was lightly stuck, but came apart with some persuasion.  I applied the appropriate lube, and since then, I have checked it a few times, and it always slips apart easily.  

 

As an aside, the rubber boot on the 2019 was not properly sealed with Staburags NBU30.  The same was true on the 2017 when I first checked it.  On the 2017, I use a liberal amount of it, and it seals nicely between service intervals.

 

My 2019 is still under warranty, but I suspect that this will not be considered a warranty item.  In any case, I think the lesson for all of us who own BMW's of this vintage and want to keep them for awhile, is to drop your final drives early, and do whatever it takes to inhibit rusting over their normal service life.

 

Cap

[brorke]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:44 PM, Cap said:

 

I have a new-to-me 2019 R1250RT with 8000 miles, and allegedly a dealer-performed service at 6000 miles.  The 6k service seems believable partly because the Hayes brakes had been replaced with Brembos when I picked it up in Chicago to ride it home to Colorado.  

 

So, today, I tried to drop the final drive and lube the splines.  And discovered that it is rusted solid.  The good news is that the final drive fluid was very clean -- suggesting again that the dealer might have replaced it at 6k.  On my 2017 RT, I dropped the FD at 10k miles, and it was lightly stuck, but came apart with some persuasion.  I applied the appropriate lube, and since then, I have checked it a few times, and it always slips apart easily.  

 

As an aside, the rubber boot on the 2019 was not properly sealed with Staburags NBU30.  The same was true on the 2017 when I first checked it.  On the 2017, I use a liberal amount of it, and it seals nicely between service intervals.

 

My 2019 is still under warranty, but I suspect that this will not be considered a warranty item.  In any case, I think the lesson for all of us who own BMW's of this vintage and want to keep them for awhile, is to drop your final drives early, and do whatever it takes to inhibit rusting over their normal service life.

 

Cap

I also have a 2019 RT. Had dealer do the 600 mi. service. At around 5k, I wanted to do the final fluid again and dropped the final to check/lube the splines. Mine weren't rusted...But mostly dry and was a little tough to separate driveshaft from final. Nice coat of moly paste and lubed the boot. Just recently did it again (at about 15k) and everything looked great.  So  agree.....Check em' early.

 

Also do my 2009 GSA every 10k.  68,000 miles....all original and everything tight.

 

Bill

[Cap]

On 8/7/2021 at 7:44 PM, Cap said:

 

My 2019 is still under warranty, but I suspect that this will not be considered a warranty item….

 

I finally got my bike to the local dealer.  They were booking appointments more than a month out.  And it did take quite a bit of haggling and escalation before I was able to leave the bike with an expectation that they would address the rusted final drive.  Their first salvo was from the GBC, guy behind the counter.  His take was that it would cost me $500 for them to diagnose the problem, which would be my cost, and only then would they consider asking BMW to treat it as a warranty repair.

 

After I declined that solution, I ended up dealing directly with the service manager, and eventually agreed to pay them $200 if BMW decided not to honor their warranty.

 

we shall see…. Cap

[LAF]

And that is a shame. 

 

Why would you need to pay for them to look at a bike with issues under warranty?

 

Sage advice for all on lubing the spines and sealing the boot.  I did it on my 15 RT first thing and my 17.5 GS at 600 miles.

 

I keep telling all who will listen that this should be a 24k service point after doing it as new.  There is no rhyme or reason on bikes being affected so doing it new IMHO is a must leaving a 24k inspection and reseal the boot.

 

My 600 mile GS FD.

 

 

 

[Cap]

2 hours ago, LAF said:

Why would you need to pay for them to look at a bike with issues under warranty?

 

The dealer was taking the position that since the final drive spline is not part of scheduled maintenance, then it is not subject to warranty unless the splines have sheared off.  Of course, most owners won't put enough miles on their motorcycles before their warranty expires, with the consequence that spline-shearing will only occur on bikes for which the warranty has lapsed.  In my opinion, the service life of a properly maintained FD spline should be roughly as long as the other moving parts like the engine and transmission.  So, the position that I am taking with the dealer is that a rusted FD spline at 8000 miles is a failure caused by improper assembly, and exacerbated by a failure to specify periodic maintenance procedures. 

 

I plan to keep my bike past the warranty period. I think I have a right to expect that all the systems will be working properly and well within their service lives when the warranty expires.  After that, I expect that when parts wear out, that it will be up to me to buy new parts and either replace them myself or pay someone to do it for me.

 

BMW built their reputation as an elite brand based on designing motorcycles with long service lives.  Perhaps their design goals have changed.  I suppose that tolerating the FD spline rust problem could be a deliberate strategy from BMW, as they figure that most of their sales will be to people who won't keep their motorcycles long enough to encounter this avoidable failure.  This is only a problem for owners of used BMW motorcycles, or the rare first owner who keeps his/her bike long enough for the problem to emerge.  If BMW has indeed changed their design philosophy, then I would argue that they no longer deserve their status as an elite brand.  Or maybe this is something their engineers didn't anticipate, and BMW will acknowledge their mistake and fix it at their expense.  I am hoping for the latter.

 

Cap

 

[LAF]

19 hours ago, Cap said:

 

The dealer was taking the position that since the final drive spline is not part of scheduled maintenance, then it is not subject to warranty unless the splines have sheared off.  Of course, most owners won't put enough miles on their motorcycles before their warranty expires, with the consequence that spline-shearing will only occur on bikes for which the warranty has lapsed.  In my opinion, the service life of a properly maintained FD spline should be roughly as long as the other moving parts like the engine and transmission.  So, the position that I am taking with the dealer is that a rusted FD spline at 8000 miles is a failure caused by improper assembly, and exacerbated by a failure to specify periodic maintenance procedures. 

 

I plan to keep my bike past the warranty period. I think I have a right to expect that all the systems will be working properly and well within their service lives when the warranty expires.  After that, I expect that when parts wear out, that it will be up to me to buy new parts and either replace them myself or pay someone to do it for me.

 

BMW built their reputation as an elite brand based on designing motorcycles with long service lives.  Perhaps their design goals have changed.  I suppose that tolerating the FD spline rust problem could be a deliberate strategy from BMW, as they figure that most of their sales will be to people who won't keep their motorcycles long enough to encounter this avoidable failure.  This is only a problem for owners of used BMW motorcycles, or the rare first owner who keeps his/her bike long enough for the problem to emerge.  If BMW has indeed changed their design philosophy, then I would argue that they no longer deserve their status as an elite brand.  Or maybe this is something their engineers didn't anticipate, and BMW will acknowledge their mistake and fix it at their expense.  I am hoping for the latter.

 

Cap

 

Understood and I would expect the same from them.  

 

I plan on keeping my 17 GS until I die so I do the maintenance and leave the dealer out of it. 

 

I assumed since the spline lube is not called out anywhere they would balk at you.  But if it was incorrectly put together and BMW should step up but I doubt it and would not hold my breath.

 

They are letting people sit for bad cams that is not a new issue and they could care less.  I mean it is like all but 4K for cams and followers!  I just think that is so ridiculous they get away with it.  I know if it happens to me I will get a lawyer and go after them and unfortunately the dealer also.  No way after 20K for the bike I am going to pay another 4K to fix their defect.

[Cap]

Update: BMW has agreed to cover the rusted spline under warranty. 

 

I am not sure what the dealer plans to do, but they are keeping the bike for 2 weeks while they order parts.  So, that might mean that they will replace both the driveshaft and the final drive.  Perhaps someone will chime in on the prospects of detaching the driveshaft from the final drive if they are removed from the bike as a combined unit.

 

In any case, props to BMW Motorrad for stepping up and standing behind their product.  Well done.

 

Cap

[Audi403]

I better check my 2019 RT. I'm the second owner...12,000km now. I'll post what I find

[wbw6cos]

I cannot wait to see how mine look; will know in about a week.  

[Audi403]

I'm going to order the correct grease and open mine up right away. I see Box Flyer's video says the service manual recommends Castrol Optimol TA for the spline lube. It appears I can order this although I had read previously it was discontinued. I also read in some of the spline lube threads that Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste White T is the recommended grease. This website states "The BMW recommended grease for gearbox spline on all models": Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste White T (100g) tube (nippynormans.com)
The Optimol TA has a much higher temperature application range: - 40°C/-40°F to + 1100°C/+ 2012°F. This is compared to -30°C/-22°F to +250°C/+482°F for the Molub-Alloy Paste White T. What do you guys think, what was the latest recommended grease before they stopped producing service manuals? Is there something better? I know I've read most moly pastes >60% would probably work.

The boot grease/sealant seems to be well agreed upon to use Staburags NBU 30 PTM.

[MikeB60]

I use Honda Moly 60.  Unfortunately, they don't sell it anymore.  The Honda replacement is M-77.

[Audi403]

1 minute ago, MikeB60 said:

I use Honda Moly 60.  Unfortunately, they don't sell it anymore.  The Honda replacement is M-77.

I read that M-77 is silicone based and not recommended for our application. Not sure how reputable the source of that information was. 

[MikeB60]

Could be but it's Hondas recommended replacement for spline lube.

[Audi403]

51 minutes ago, MikeB60 said:

Could be but it's Hondas recommended replacement for spline lube.

Oh ok, it's probably fine then. I think I'll try and stick with what BMW recommends unless I find a good reason to do otherwise. I emailed my dealer and asked them if they can get the Castrol Optimal TA and the Staburags NBU 30 PTM. I also asked if those are still the two recommended products from BMW...

 

[Cap]

First, there is nothing sacred about these products recommended by BMW.  But, they work well, and I use them.  I bought a small pot of Staburags NBU 30 PTM on Amazon.  Here is a link for 25 grams, which will be a lifetime supply: Staburags

 

With respect to the Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste TA, you can find it on ebay, or at Pelican Parts (a respected online retailer for things like Porsche parts).  Here's a link for Pelican: Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste TA

 

As I said, I use both.  But other well-qualified members of this forum prefer different products.  On wetheads, the splines on the final drive tend to rust.  So, the goal is to keep them lubricated so they don't bond to the driveshaft.  There is not a lot of relative movement of that joint, so you don't need some super lubricant -- just something to keep it from rusting.  Rust is a consequence of moisture getting past the boot.  And that is why I like Staburags -- it is a tacky waterproof goo that glues your rubber boot to the metal swingarm and final drive.   I slather it on the boot mating surface.  It helps to make installing the boot easier, and then it forms a waterproof seal that stays tacky for a long time.  It gets crusty after awhile -- but when you remove the boot for your next service, you will find that if you wipe off the crusty residue of old Staburags, you will still have a bit of tacky stuff remaining.  Pretty amazing stuff.  Again, members on this forum have substituted other products to serve as the sealer of the final drive boot, and I'm sure they work fine.

 

Cap

[Audi403]

1 hour ago, Cap said:

First, there is nothing sacred about these products recommended by BMW.  But, they work well, and I use them.  I bought a small pot of Staburags NBU 30 PTM on Amazon.  Here is a link for 25 grams, which will be a lifetime supply: Staburags

 

With respect to the Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste TA, you can find it on ebay, or at Pelican Parts (a respected online retailer for things like Porsche parts).  Here's a link for Pelican: Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste TA

 

As I said, I use both.  But other well-qualified members of this forum prefer different products.  On wetheads, the splines on the final drive tend to rust.  So, the goal is to keep them lubricated so they don't bond to the driveshaft.  There is not a lot of relative movement of that joint, so you don't need some super lubricant -- just something to keep it from rusting.  Rust is a consequence of moisture getting past the boot.  And that is why I like Staburags -- it is a tacky waterproof goo that glues your rubber boot to the metal swingarm and final drive.   I slather it on the boot mating surface.  It helps to make installing the boot easier, and then it forms a waterproof seal that stays tacky for a long time.  It gets crusty after awhile -- but when you remove the boot for your next service, you will find that if you wipe off the crusty residue of old Staburags, you will still have a bit of tacky stuff remaining.  Pretty amazing stuff.  Again, members on this forum have substituted other products to serve as the sealer of the final drive boot, and I'm sure they work fine.

 

Cap

Thanks for your reply. I'll definitely be using the Staburags. Knowing the boot is sealed correctly is important to me. I know BoxFlyer said the recommended grease for the splines from the service manual was Castrol Optimol TA. Did it change to Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste TA at some point?

[Skywagon]

I use waterproof marine wheel bearing grease. If it’s good enough to keep salt water out of trailer wheels that get submerged it’s good enough for occasional water on the boot. It’s cheap and available almost any auto supply

 

 

0953419D-4B61-4EAC-A8A5-FB696469628F.webp

[Boxflyer]

I've worked with Cap on several 12k services and in the beginning we used the BMW listed lubricants.

 

What happened to me to change my approach to choosing something else is the observation that there were soooooo many issues with "first look" services on the FD splines.  I believe Cap needed to have his FD/paralever/driveshaft all replaced under warranty on his R1250RT...a "first look" issue that is commonly reported and I have observed first hand about 15 times doing 12k services.

 

When I was doing the first service on my own 2016RT, the splines were rusted, but not seized.  I used the Opimol TA and the Staburags as that's what's listed by BMW for several subsequent services.

Again, and again, I had water getting past the Staburags and the Optimal TA getting crusty and drying out now leaving the splines exposed to rusting again and again.

 

I switched to Honda M-77 for the splines and Lucas Lithium Grease for the boot sealing surfaces and my FD spline issues have stopped.

Amazon link to Honda M-77  Amazon link to Lucas White Lithium Grease

 

Sorry I have not contributed to this thread earlier, and I hope folks have not spent too much $$$ on the Staburags as I do not recommend it anymore.  Changing the original YouTube 12k Service Video is not possible, so I need to do a new video with my revisions and amendments to what I recorded back in 2018 when the series was filmed.

 

Hope this helps and does not confuse anyone.

Brad

 

[Audi403]

1 hour ago, Boxflyer said:

I've worked with Cap on several 12k services and in the beginning we used the BMW listed lubricants.

 

What happened to me to change my approach to choosing something else is the observation that there were soooooo many issues with "first look" services on the FD splines.  I believe Cap needed to have his FD/paralever/driveshaft all replaced under warranty on his R1250RT...a "first look" issue that is commonly reported and I have observed first hand about 15 times doing 12k services.

 

When I was doing the first service on my own 2016RT, the splines were rusted, but not seized.  I used the Opimol TA and the Staburags as that's what's listed by BMW for several subsequent services.

Again, and again, I had water getting past the Staburags and the Optimal TA getting crusty and drying out now leaving the splines exposed to rusting again and again.

 

I switched to Honda M-77 for the splines and Lucas Lithium Grease for the boot sealing surfaces and my FD spline issues have stopped.

Amazon link to Honda M-77  Amazon link to Lucas White Lithium Grease

 

Sorry I have not contributed to this thread earlier, and I hope folks have not spent too much $$$ on the Staburags as I do not recommend it anymore.  Changing the original YouTube 12k Service Video is not possible, so I need to do a new video with my revisions and amendments to what I recorded back in 2018 when the series was filmed.

 

Hope this helps and does not confuse anyone.

Brad

 

Awesome, those products are easier to get a hold of for me and the price is much more reasonable. Thanks for sharing your experience. I think I'll try those products on my R1250RT.

[Dave_in_TX]

20 hours ago, Audi403 said:

I'm going to order the correct grease and open mine up right away. I see Box Flyer's video says the service manual recommends Castrol Optimol TA for the spline lube. It appears I can order this although I had read previously it was discontinued. I also read in some of the spline lube threads that Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste White T is the recommended grease. This website states "The BMW recommended grease for gearbox spline on all models": Castrol Molub-Alloy Paste White T (100g) tube (nippynormans.com)

The factory applied lube on my @020 R1250 GS was black. It looked similar to some  Sta Lube CV joint grease I have.

[Audi403]

Hey @Boxflyer, do you think that the Lucas Lithium Grease sealing the boot better may be why it appears the M77 is outperforming the Optimol TA? If the Staburags was letting water in, would that atleast partially explain why the Optimol was failing? It looks like I can get the Lucas White Lithium Grease for dirt cheap locally so that's a big plus.

I contacted my BMW dealer to see what they recommend and they carry "Molub-Alloy Paste TA", they even have it in stock. The MSDS states this was previously called Optimol Paste TA but was renamed in 2015, so it's the same stuff you used previously. A tube of the is about $28 Canadian ($22 USD). I contacted the local Honda motorcycle dealership for M77 and they didn't know what I was talking about. After a couple times being put on hold I was told they can order it but it's probably cheaper to buy it on Amazon (seriously lol). It was a little over $40. It's currently unavailable on Amazon in Canada so I'm not sure on the pricing there. I think I'll try calling some Honda dealerships tomorrow. Apparently it is the specified grease for Honda Civic's to be used for their brakes between the pad backing and shims. Quite the difference in application compared to the splines of a driveshaft.

Here is the discussion I read that formed my previous negative opinion on M77. 9 pages of mostly people shit talking it. 
Where did the recommendation for Honda M-77 Assembly Paste start? | ST1300 Tech | ST-Owners.com

[Audi403]

An interesting thing to point out after looking at the MSDS for the BMW recommended grease, Molub-Alloy Paste TA, it doesn't actually contain molybdenum. I've always heard you want to use a paste with a high moly content (60%+). I don't know what to believe when it comes to grease. So many different opinions out there on what to use. 

Here'e the quoted recommended application for M77 from their technical data sheet:
"Suitable for lubrication points with low to moderate loads and low speeds that are subjected to water and extreme temperatures; at temperatures above 230°C (446°F), the carrier volatilizes leaving virtually no residue, and the remaining dry sliding film itself takes over the lubrication up to +400°C (+662°F). Suitable for lubricating parts consisting of materials that are not resistant to mineral oils. Used successfully on metal/metal combinations with frictional and contact surfaces, brake anchor plates and the brake pistons of disc brakes"

[Cap]

A couple of comments… 

 

First, Boxflyer’s observation of “first look” failures is critical. It is not obvious why the splines develop rust so soon after the bikes are put in service.  Based on my fairly limited experience, I think that BMW doesn’t apply very much spline paste or boot sealer during assembly.  On both my wetheads, the boot was almost devoid of Staburags and the splines were dry.  So, at least for the first look, I believe the problem originates from shortcuts in the assembly process.  The final drive spline lube is not listed as part of the official BMW service protocol.  Most owners probably never look — and thus have no way of knowing that their splines have rusted to their driveshaft.  And the eventual catastrophic failure will occur long after the warranty has expired.

 

Second, Molub-Alloy Paste TA is not the same thing as Molub-Alloy Paste White T.  The former is what I use. It is a silver paste rather than white.  And it doesn’t turn crusty like the white stuff.  Rather, on my R1200RT, it remained completely unchanged after 12,000 miles, when I wiped it off and applied a fresh layer.

 

Cap

[Audi403]

12 minutes ago, Cap said:

A couple of comments… 

 

First, Boxflyer’s observation of “first look” failures is critical. It is not obvious why the splines develop rust so soon after the bikes are put in service.  Based on my fairly limited experience, I think that BMW doesn’t apply very much spline paste or boot sealer during assembly.  On both my wetheads, the boot was almost devoid of Staburags and the splines were dry.  So, at least for the first look, I believe the problem originates from shortcuts in the assembly process.  The final drive spline lube is not listed as part of the official BMW service protocol.  Most owners probably never look — and thus have no way of knowing that their splines have rusted to their driveshaft.  And the eventual catastrophic failure will occur long after the warranty has expired.

 

Second, Molub-Alloy Paste TA is not the same thing as Molub-Alloy Paste White T.  The former is what I use. It is a silver paste rather than white.  And it doesn’t turn crusty like the white stuff.  Rather, on my R1200RT, it remained completely unchanged after 12,000 miles, when I wiped it off and applied a fresh layer.

 

Cap

Thanks for sharing your experience. My dealer has the Molub-Alloy Paste TA in stock and the price is reasonable. I think I'll go with that.

 

Did you use the Staburags grease to seal the boot or did you also start using an alternative product like the Lucas White Lithium Grease?

[Audi403]

I ended up ordering the Molub-Alloy Paste TA and the Staburags NBU 30 PTM from my local dealer. They should have it in about a week. I'll report back on how the splines look in my 2019 with 13,500km on it. I'll also try and report back with how these products worked the next time I drop the final drive. Maybe I'll even do it at the 20,000km service to make sure the greases are doing their jobs. We'll see how ambitious I feel lol

[Yuro]

On 7/17/2021 at 4:40 PM, Alfred02 said:

It seems really sporadic. There were 2018 GS/GSA bikes with such high rust, that they needed driveshaft/final drive replacement, while at least one GS/GSA which was a 2014 model showed the rear to be in mint condition.

As mine is the original 2014 with very low mileage, I will be checking it soon, once a ton of tools and parts arrive. They are coming from all over the world, so ETA for the work is completely unknown.

So yes, I agree, if you want to check it, then personally I would be reluctant to pull the boot back, unless you have that expensive assembly grease " Staburacs NBU 30PTM". (One of the items I am waiting for, coming from the USA). Because once you pull back that boot, you now have broken the seal that might have been perfect and now you introduce a problem that didn't actually exist.

The other alternative is to buy a USB Bluetooth Endoscope camera that you can use with any iPhone/Android phone and use the large cutout underneath in the final drive to have a peak. They don't give you the best vision, but should be good enough to see if there is any large issue.

 

I bought my new GSA for use on the highways but turns out I've been through 5 creeks across the road already with 6,000 miles on the bike.  I'll definitely be checking my splines next final drive oil change.  

[Audi403]

Hey guys,

Here's what my 2019 R1250RT looked like when I dropped the final drive today. I have 22,500km on the bike now. You can see there is a complete lack of grease on the mating surfaces of the rubber boot. It looks like some moisture has definitely gotten in. You can see I cracked one of the plastic tabs on the rubber gaiter. I'm assuming I did this during removal, most likely no one has dropped the final drive before. I purchased a new one from my local dealer for much cheaper than I had expected. It was $66 CAD, which is about $50 USD. Next time I may purchase a spare before doing the service to have on hand just in case. 

[Audi403]

I used a small wire brush to clean some of the rust off. Next, I very thoroughly cleaned everything before applying a thin even coat of Molub-Alloy Paste TA on the splines. I applied it to the pinion of the final drive, and the splines of the UV joint on the paralever side. I then thoroughly coated all mating surfaces of the rubber gaiter using Staburags NBU 30 PTM. I applied it to the mating surface on the paralever and inside the final drive as well. It seems to me there is a lack of grease from the factory. I may have gone a bit overboard, but I think it should seal up now. When I open it up again in another 20,000km will be the true test.

 

[wbw6cos]

The lube that the factory uses tends to dry out, which is why you get issues.

 

Boxflyer has a video(s) about servicing your bike.   Skip to the 15:45 mark to see the part about the final drive.  His technique for boot removal should help you from breaking the tabs.  Click.  Click,  Click.

 

My RT had slightly more rust at 24,000 miles than yours.

 

Keep up the good work!

[Audi403]

7 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

The lube that the factory uses tends to dry out, which is why you get issues.

 

Boxflyer has a video(s) about servicing your bike.   Skip to the 15:45 mark to see the part about the final drive.  His technique for boot removal should help you from breaking the tabs.  Click.  Click,  Click.

 

My RT had slightly more rust at 24,000 miles than yours.

 

Keep up the good work!

The thing is, some people don't have these issues. I chatted with another member who uses the recommended BMW products and he hasn't had any issues. Part of me wonders if the grease from the factory is just applied to sparingly. I know Boxflyer recommends using white lithium grease now. I'm going to see how this works and then reassess in another 20,000km. If I'm feeling proactive, maybe I'll try and take a look in there sooner than that to see how it's looking.

 

I did watch Boxflyer's video, but still managed to break a clip. I think I know what my issue was. The final drive may have been sitting slightly too low, which was causing the UV joint / driveshaft to angle up in the paralever housing. I believe this was pressing on the clip and preventing it from being released. I know now. Shouldn't happen again.

[wbw6cos]

Yeah, that is why I let others break things online before I do it.   I get pretty good at doing that on my own; I like videos to limit my destruction.   

 

A dealer did the first 12k service and never needed to drop the final drive; spline checks were not part of their service at that time.  But now, ......hmmmm.

[K12LTS]

My 2015 RT at 24,000 miles looked fine, and this was the first time it was opened up.  No creek crossings or power washers but it has been in rain.  I used Honda Moly 60 on the splines and waterproof white grease on the boot when I put it back together.

 

 

 

[Audi403]

2 hours ago, K12LTS said:

My 2015 RT at 24,000 miles looked fine, and this was the first time it was opened up.  No creek crossings or power washers but it has been in rain.  I used Honda Moly 60 on the splines and waterproof white grease on the boot when I put it back together.

 

 

 

Looks like yours was sealed up nicely from the factory. Let us know how the white lithium grease and moly 60 worked out for you next time you open it up.

[wbw6cos]

mine at 24 k miles when Brad serviced the bike.

 

 

 

At 36 k miles when I checked it again.  White lithium grease was used to seal the boot at the 24 k mark.  It gets ridden year-round, rain or shine, so......not too shabby.

 

[Boxflyer]

I’m looking forward to servicing your bike again this spring at START’23 in Ellijay.

Trend analysis is important with the FD splines and boot as well as the Cam and Valve service. 

[wbw6cos]

Thanks Brad.  Set my appointment for Thursday at 8 a.m..