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R1150R No spark


Zodena

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So I've been having some issues with my r1150r. I've had it for a couple of months and it ran just fine in the beginning. After a month or so It fired up just as usual, but then stalled (due to no choke i assumed at the time). but after that it was stone dead. the battery seemed fine, the engine turned over. so I pulled the spark plugs and put them against the cylinder head to look for a spark. there was none.

 

I eventually managed to get a barely visible spark against the cylinder head a few days later with the battery fully charged, and help from jumper cables to a car battery. I eventually got myself a fresh high-end battery, new ignition coil, ignition cables and spark plugs. after replacing the old parts, I was relieved to see strong consistent sparks. and the bike fired right up with no issue.

 

1 week and about 100 miles later, I'm out on a ride with no issues what so ever, and decide to accelerate a bit more aggressively than I had previously done. i cranked it up to between 5-6k rpm, and can't recall accurately what happened, but I suddenly lost all power, and the engine was not running when I came to a halt. I tried to fire it up with no luck. (Note that I may have had low fuel at the time, but not empty)

 

After checking what my knowledge allowed, I found nothing broken with the engine itself.

- Compression test showed 9 bar in both cylinders.
- Fuel pump/injectors were running fine.

So I once again put the spark plugs against the cylinder, this time with a somewhat decent spark but very irregular. Fully charged the battery overnight (showed over 13 Volts) and repeated. This time with no spark.

With a good battery, fresh plugs/cables/coil. I've run out of ideas. My only guess would be that the new coil somehow got destroyed aswell, (if that was the issue to begin with.)

I'll add some details below. Will appreciate any thoughts or input about what could be wrong.

 

- Low mileage, 38000km
- all indicators working, and nothing out of the ordinary.
- Tachometer is moving consistently when attempting to start the engine.
- fuel pump runs, and I can feel the injectors ticking aswell.

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8 minutes ago, Zodena said:

 

So I've been having some issues with my r1150r. I've had it for a couple of months and it ran just fine in the beginning. After a month or so It fired up just as usual, but then stalled (due to no choke i assumed at the time). but after that it was stone dead. the battery seemed fine, the engine turned over. so I pulled the spark plugs and put them against the cylinder head to look for a spark. there was none.

 

I eventually managed to get a barely visible spark against the cylinder head a few days later with the battery fully charged, and help from jumper cables to a car battery. I eventually got myself a fresh high-end battery, new ignition coil, ignition cables and spark plugs. after replacing the old parts, I was relieved to see strong consistent sparks. and the bike fired right up with no issue.

 

1 week and about 100 miles later, I'm out on a ride with no issues what so ever, and decide to accelerate a bit more aggressively than I had previously done. i cranked it up to between 5-6k rpm, and can't recall accurately what happened, but I suddenly lost all power, and the engine was not running when I came to a halt. I tried to fire it up with no luck. (Note that I may have had low fuel at the time, but not empty)

 

After checking what my knowledge allowed, I found nothing broken with the engine itself.

- Compression test showed 9 bar in both cylinders.
- Fuel pump/injectors were running fine.

So I once again put the spark plugs against the cylinder, this time with a somewhat decent spark but very irregular. Fully charged the battery overnight (showed over 13 Volts) and repeated. This time with no spark.

With a good battery, fresh plugs/cables/coil. I've run out of ideas. My only guess would be that the new coil somehow got destroyed aswell, (if that was the issue to begin with.)

I'll add some details below. Will appreciate any thoughts or input about what could be wrong.

 

- Low mileage, 38000km
- all indicators working, and nothing out of the ordinary.
- Tachometer is moving consistently when attempting to start the engine.
- fuel pump runs, and I can feel the injectors ticking aswell.

Afternoon  Zodena

 

There are few possibilities but we first need to know if your 1150R is a single spark (only 2 spark plugs) or a twin spark (has 4 spark plugs?)

 

We also need to know that motorcycle's build year & what country that motorcycle was originally sold in?

 

Rather than a wild guess if we know the above we can offer a more educated response.  

 

Also, are you removing both spark plugs to test spark or only one side?????

 

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5 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Zodena

 

There are few possibilities but we first need to know if your 1150R is a single spark (only 2 spark plugs) or a twin spark (has 4 spark plugs?)

 

We also need to know that motorcycle's build year & what country that motorcycle was originally sold in?

 

Rather than a wild guess if we know the above we can offer a more educated response.  

 

Also, are you removing both spark plugs to test spark or only one side?????

 

Thank you for the quick response. It's an early 2002, single spark european sold bike.

I removed both spark plugs during each test, and made sure they were in contact with the cylinder head.

 

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28 minutes ago, Zodena said:

Thank you for the quick response. It's an early 2002, single spark european sold bike.

I removed both spark plugs during each test, and made sure they were in contact with the cylinder head.

 

Afternoon  Zodena

 

OK, that eliminates a couple of things that plagued later 1150R bikes.

 

Do you have an ohmmeter?  Is so then measure the secondary side resistance from one side spark plug wire (metal part that contacts spark plug) all the way through to the other side  (metal part that contacts the other spark plug). You probably want to see something like 17K ohms to around 22K ohms (or in that area anyhow). 

 

If you "FOR SURE"  have a spark issue then it could be anything from low coil primary supply voltage, to your HES (Hall Effect Sensor) ignition side acting up,  to the HES pig tail being partially cut by the alternator belt,  to a problem with the Motronic fueling computer, to ?????

 

Check the voltage TO the coil (green wire), you would like to see over 11.5 volts while cranking. 

 

The single spark ignition coils seldom go bad & seeing as you replaced yours already the chances of 2 being bad are very very low. 

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9 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Zodena

 

OK, that eliminates a couple of things that plagued later 1150R bikes.

 

Do you have an ohmmeter?  Is so then measure the secondary side resistance from one side spark plug wire (metal part that contacts spark plug) all the way through to the other side  (metal part that contacts the other spark plug). You probably want to see something like 17K ohms to around 22K ohms (or in that area anyhow). 

 

If you "FOR SURE"  have a spark issue then it could be anything from low coil primary supply voltage, to your HES (Hall Effect Sensor) ignition side acting up,  to the HES pig tail being partially cut by the alternator belt,  to a problem with the Motronic fueling computer, to ?????

 

The single spark ignition coils seldom go bad & seeing as you replaced yours already the chances of 2 being bad are very very low. 

If I recall correctly, I measured it to 21k Ohms. The voltage to the old coil was measured at just under 13V. I did not give the HES much thought since the tachometer, which I believe recieves the very same signal from the motronic as the Ignition coil, has a steady pulse and moves upon pressing the ignition. Also, no issue with the injector side of the HES.

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12 hours ago, Zodena said:

If I recall correctly, I measured it to 21k Ohms. The voltage to the old coil was measured at just under 13V. I did not give the HES much thought since the tachometer, which I believe recieves the very same signal from the motronic as the Ignition coil, has a steady pulse and moves upon pressing the ignition. Also, no issue with the injector side of the HES.

Evening  Zodena

 

With a steady non jumping tac needle that pretty well says the HES is at least triggering the sparking side. 

 

The injector side doesn't tell the whole story as the HES has 2 outputs one at BDC & one at TDC. Different trigger output wire for each HES sensor.  

 

You might remove the front belt cover & make sure the HES pigtail is not being cut by the alternator belt (also check the HES pigtail clip to be sure that it isn't broken & allowing the belt to contact  the HES pig tail)

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Morning  Zodena

 

I had another thought after I signed off last night___

 

Try checking for spark with different spark plugs than were/are in the engine when it quit. 

 

Kind of a long shot but if you have water in your fuel that can not only cause an engine quit but the non-burning water can wet out the spark plug porcelain's therefore allowing the spark to bleed off down the wet porcelain so it won't (or might only randomly)   jump the electrode spark gap. (looks just like no, or poor, spark when tested with wetted out spark plugs).

 

Once the bike sits for a while the spark plugs can dry out & allow a visible spark & the water in the fuel tank can settle to the bottom so the engine can again sometimes start (until you do something with the motorcycle  to stir the water back up & mix it with the supply fuel again) 

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Evening Dirtrider

 

I will remove the front cover and take a look at the HES pigtail.

 

I re-measured the secondary side resistance to 19K ohms when measuring from one spark plug wire to the other, and 28K ohms with the spark plugs inserted, which has some resistance on their own.

 

I tried swapping the spark plugs for identical ones, both this time and last, but same result. Last time I did however manage to get a very weak spark when narrowing down the distance between the electrodes on one pair of spark plugs. But not enough to spark under pressure in the cylinder.

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Troubleshooting suggestion. Poke around the electrical looms and connections in total darkness. It will allow you to see intermittent shorts or opened circuits as sparks jump the gaps as wires and connections are moved. 

I used this method to determine the original Motronic fuse had a hairline crack. I could see a spark jump the gap in the dark. Fuse replaced and intermittent run issue resolved. 

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2 hours ago, Zodena said:

Evening Dirtrider

 

I will remove the front cover and take a look at the HES pigtail.

 

I re-measured the secondary side resistance to 19K ohms when measuring from one spark plug wire to the other, and 28K ohms with the spark plugs inserted, which has some resistance on their own.

 

I tried swapping the spark plugs for identical ones, both this time and last, but same result. Last time I did however manage to get a very weak spark when narrowing down the distance between the electrodes on one pair of spark plugs. But not enough to spark under pressure in the cylinder.

Afternoon  Zodena

 

You secondary side looks to be within specifications so I really don't have a definitive answer for you.  

 

It could be your coil (doubtful) as this is your 2nd coil with same failure. But a coil CAN test OK on the primary & secondary but still have internal arcing that kills off available spark KV at the spark plugs. 

 

It could be one of your HES output circuits (cut pig tail or something) --This is worth looking for.

 

It could be something wrong with your Motronic but you would t-h-i-n-k that would show up in the tac operation.  (not 100% but seems like it should anyhow).

 

It could be something wrong with the coil's 12v supply side (THIS is worth perusing if nothing found in the HES pigtail area (Add a monitoring wire right at the coil at the 12v connector going in then monitor that wire with a voltmeter). An ignition switch with some resistance can lower the coil's supply voltage. 

 

OR, as a test, try running 12v directly from the battery to the coil's 12 supply terminal. THIS will quickly eliminate all the coil's supply side possible issues &  eliminate a whole lot of  guessing on the coil's supply voltage side. 

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