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Starting up hesitation


PastorJay

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PastorJay

The last several times I started my 2015 rt it seems it cranks a little more before it turns over. This morning probably two or three seconds of cranking then I stopped and crank it again and it started. What do you think is happening. Could a plug be going bad. If so any recommendations about what plugs i should repack tom with. Any other thoughts. Appreciate any suggestions. Wonder if anyone else has had this problem. 

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dirtrider
15 minutes ago, PastorJay said:

The last several times I started my 2015 rt it seems it cranks a little more before it turns over. This morning probably two or three seconds of cranking then I stopped and crank it again and it started. What do you think is happening. Could a plug be going bad. If so any recommendations about what plugs i should repack tom with. Any other thoughts. Appreciate any suggestions. Wonder if anyone else has had this problem. 

Afternoon  PastorJay

 

You didn't give us much to go on.

 

If it sounds like it might be cranking a bit slower than it use to crank over then possibly your battery is getting old enough so engine doesn't crank over fast enough to trip the compression releases therefore not enough compression to start it first try or two.  

 

I might also be camshaft sensor timing issue (worth having checked anyhow if nothing else found) .

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PastorJay
11 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  PastorJay

 

You didn't give us much to go on.

 

If it sounds like it might be cranking a bit slower than it use to crank over then possibly your battery is getting old enough so engine doesn't crank over fast enough to trip the compression releases therefore not enough compression to start it first try or two.  

 

I might also be camshaft sensor timing issue (worth having checked anyhow if nothing else found) .

Im guessing the original battery. What is the normal life on these? 

 

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alegerlotz
13 minutes ago, PastorJay said:

Im guessing the original battery. What is the normal life on these? 

 

 

3 years

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dirtrider
12 minutes ago, PastorJay said:

Im guessing the original battery. What is the normal life on these? 

 

Afternoon  PastorJay

 

I'm not sure there is a "normal" but anything over 3 years usually means they can fail or at least lose some cranking power at about any time.  

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PastorJay
21 minutes ago, alegerlotz said:

 

3 years

What do you suggest as a good replacement battery. 

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dirtrider
37 minutes ago, PastorJay said:

What do you suggest as a good replacement battery. 

Afternoon Pastor Jay

 

I don't have enough personal background on the BMW 1200 wethead replacement battery's to make much of a recommendation.

 

Maybe the thread below can give you insight. 

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/99763-replacement-battery-info-for-r1200rt-wetheadr1250rt-shifthead/?tab=comments#comment-1077424

 

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PastorJay
2 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Pastor Jay

 

I don't have enough personal background on the BMW 1200 wethead replacement battery's to make much of a recommendation.

 

Maybe the thread below can give you insight. 

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/99763-replacement-battery-info-for-r1200rt-wetheadr1250rt-shifthead/?tab=comments#comment-1077424

 

Thank you I will check it out. 

 

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alegerlotz
3 hours ago, PastorJay said:

This seems to be a preferred battery: What are your thoughts. Ebay $99, 

Yuasa Fresh Pack Maintenance-Free AGM Battery (YTX16-BS) YUAM32X6S

I went with the next size up.  I think it was the YTX20CH-BS... same physical size as the original, but with more CCA.

 

https://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery/ytx20ch-bs/?vehicle_type=motorcycle&vehicle_make=bmw&vehicle_year=2016&vehicle_model=r1200rt&vehicle_id=31899

Edited by alegerlotz
fix a typo
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Aussie Mark

I had the same issue with my 15RT.  During the last service I spent sometime methodically aligning the camshaft trigger mark, dead center to the groove in the camshaft sensor. Originally it was on the edge of the grove (this is what the drawing in the manual appears to show) however, for me I was finding 2-3 out of 10 starts would require me to stop the extended crank. Hit the button a second time and it would fire up.

Now with the adjustment mark in the dead center of the grove, that issue has gone. It may not be an issue for others or be your issue however, that is what has worked for my bike with 104,000Kms..

 

 

 

 

 

Trigger Mark.jpg

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@Boxflyer will tell you that this seems to be a symptom of your Cam Timing being slightly off. My bike does it every now and again. I’d like to have him look at it sometime before the summer is over. I hope I’m not misquoting him but that’s how my ears heard it. Maybe he’ll chime in also. :thumbsup:

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Paul De

My 2015 does that sometimes and has done this from new.  I have read on this board of others with the same issue. It isn't a they all do that thing, but a lot of them do and dealer likely will tell you it is normal.   Whether it is your battery or, as Aussie Mark and Tewks suggest, that the cam timing sensor being slightly off it is worth considering  the cam sensor if after putting in a new battery it still does it all the time.  BTW, my 2015 RT still has the original battery, but spends all of its down time on an AGM compatible battery tender.  My solution is the lazy one, if it does not immediately fire up, I release the start button and then hit it again and the bike always fire right up.  I will replace the battery for next riding season given that the manufacturing date of the bike will have my battery at 7 years old by then.

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PastorJay
15 minutes ago, Paul De said:

My 2015 does that sometimes and has done this from new.  I have read on this board of others with the same issue. It isn't a they all do that thing, but a lot of them do and dealer likely will tell you it is normal.   Whether it is your battery or, as Aussie Mark and Tewks suggest, that the cam timing sensor being slightly off it is worth considering  the cam sensor if after putting in a new battery it still does it all the time.  BTW, my 2015 RT still has the original battery, but spends all of its down time on an AGM compatible battery tender.  My solution is the lazy one, if it does not immediately fire up, I release the start button and then hit it again and the bike always fire right up.  I will replace the battery for next riding season given that the manufacturing date of the bike will have my battery at 7 years old by then.

 

Thank you so much for the information. I have ordered a new battery which will arrive next week. I bought the bike a few months ago and it has always immediately fired right up. I have put a little over 2k miles on it. It has just been the last few weeks where I am getting the hesitation. It still starts every time just with a bit more effort. Anyway, I will let you know if the new battery effects it at all. If that does not help I will have the cam sensor checked out. 

Let me just say I am absolutely loving this bike. I was actually looking to replace my cruiser with with the Honda sport touring 1300 and i stumbled on some information on the 1600 BMW. I thought nice looking bike let me check this out. Im so glad I did. After looking at them and comparing I decided the rt would suite my wife and I best.   As the old eagles song goes;  Every time i ride this bike I get "a peaceful easy feeling I know won't let me down" Flat out awesome. I miss the rumble and muscle of my cruiser but this sweet ride more than makes up for it. Thanks again .

 

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PastorJay
1 hour ago, Aussie Mark said:

I had the same issue with my 15RT.  During the last service I spent sometime methodically aligning the camshaft trigger mark, dead center to the groove in the camshaft sensor. Originally it was on the edge of the grove (this is what the drawing in the manual appears to show) however, for me I was finding 2-3 out of 10 starts would require me to stop the extended crank. Hit the button a second time and it would fire up.

Now with the adjustment mark in the dead center of the grove, that issue has gone. It may not be an issue for others or be your issue however, that is what has worked for my bike with 104,000Kms..

 

 

 

 

 

Trigger Mark.jpg

Awesome, Thanks man. I will definitely check it out should my new battery not take care of the problem. 

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Aussie Mark
5 hours ago, TEWKS said:

@Boxflyer will tell you that this seems to be a symptom of your Cam Timing being slightly off. My bike does it every now and again. I’d like to have him look at it sometime before the summer is over. I hope I’m not misquoting him but that’s how my ears heard it. Maybe he’ll chime in also. :thumbsup:

Boxflyer is the man with the knowledge and I've been very grateful for him passing on his RT wisdom.  :thumbsup: Highly recommend the purchase of his Cam Chain Tensioner tool, if you don't have the OEM version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ts_LP-1rr0

When doing my valve and trigger timing, I also use the OEM TDC locking pin (crankshaft) and the Cam Alignment jig. I'm new to the RT world however, with the assistance of Boxflyer and these forums, I've had great success with my bike even with the higher Kms on it. If or when the starting hesitation returns, I'll recheck and record the position of the trigger timing mark and determine how much it has moved since the last check. It will over time as the engine gets more Km/Mi on it and the cam chain stretches and engine clearances alter however, that just gives me an excuse to go and tinker with the bike. :grin:

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PastorJay
6 hours ago, TEWKS said:

@Boxflyer will tell you that this seems to be a symptom of your Cam Timing being slightly off. My bike does it every now and again. I’d like to have him look at it sometime before the summer is over. I hope I’m not misquoting him but that’s how my ears heard it. Maybe he’ll chime in also. :thumbsup:

This sight has been invaluable to me already. I no some of my questions might be a bit simplistic however I'm new to BMW and will catch on fast. I will check out the YouTube on the cam chain tensioner tool. I am also always looking for reason to tinker with the bike as well. I just took the old battery out and it is the original. 

Thanks again. 

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Paul De

I’m not fully sure of this but I think I get the long crank with no fire up thing in warmer weather.  
 

One other anecdotal solution that others have said helps is to use the kill switch instead of just turning off the ignition. Then on start up, allow the power up of gauges to go through its sweep and then system check to complete before returning the kill switch to run and then the start button.   I have been trying this sequence, but haven’t been doing it long enough to determine if it actually helps or is just voodoo.  But hey, is a BMW motorcycle really a BMW if there aren’t some quirks or idiosyncrasies? 

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PastorJay
10 minutes ago, Paul De said:

I’m not fully sure of this but I think I get the long crank with no fire up thing in warmer weather.  
 

One other anecdotal solution that others have said helps is to use the kill switch instead of just turning off the ignition. Then on start up, allow the power up of gauges to go through its sweep and then system check to complete before returning the kill switch to run and then the start button.   I have been trying this sequence, but haven’t been doing it long enough to determine if it actually helps or is just voodoo.  But hey, is a BMW motorcycle really a BMW if there aren’t some quirks or idiosyncrasies? 

Interesting! I will give it a try should the new battery not do the trick.. I pulled the old battery which verified that it is the original 2015. I will get my new battery soon and check things out. 

Is there some safe sequence turning things on after hooking up a new fully charged battery. I read someplace that before you actually turn the bike over you should twist the throttle all the way a few times. You ever hear of that.  

Thanks, enjoy the day. 

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PastorJay
8 minutes ago, Paul De said:

I think that applies to the 1150, but not needed on the Waterheads

Okay, thanks.

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wbw6cos

That method you speak of is Throttle Position Sensor re-set, which applies to most Oilhead bikes.   I have used it periodically on my 2000 R 1200 C after the battery was diconnected for quite some time.   

 

When you install the battery, just be sure the connections are clean and tight and you should be fine.

 

On my R 1250 RT, I hit just igntion button to let it cycle up while putting on the gloves, then fire 'er up.  On the shutdown sequence, I usually just hit the kill switch and give it a few seconds while putting down the side stand and  then turn off the power.   Not sure if it really matters in the grand scheme of things, but *knock wood* so far, so good.   The bike has a computer, of sorts, so when a person turns a p/c on it takes a brief moment before it can be used - that is my thought process, which not wordly renowned - just wannabe.  :thumbsup:

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Paul De

OM only says you might need disable anti-theft, but other than that you will need to reset date and time.

 

Here is the PDF of OM I downloaded from the BMW Motorad website a while back

 

R_0A13_RM_0815_07.pdf

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PastorJay
4 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

That method you speak of is Throttle Position Sensor re-set, which applies to most Oilhead bikes.   I have used it periodically on my 2000 R 1200 C after the battery was diconnected for quite some time.   

 

When you install the battery, just be sure the connections are clean and tight and you should be fine.

 

On my R 1250 RT, I hit just igntion button to let it cycle up while putting on the gloves, then fire 'er up.  On the shutdown sequence, I usually just hit the kill switch and give it a few seconds while putting down the side stand and  then turn off the power.   Not sure if it really matters in the grand scheme of things, but *knock wood* so far, so good.   The bike has a computer, of sorts, so when a person turns a p/c on it takes a brief moment before it can be used - that is my thought process, which not wordly renowned - just wannabe.  :thumbsup:

Hey, makes good common sense to me. Thanks for the input. do you use dielectric gel on the connections. I do for my cars and was planning on the same for the bike. 

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Bill_Walker

On another thread on this topic (or maybe it was in the "things I didn't know about my wethead" thread), somebody brought up the fact that the owner's manual actually tells you to crack the throttle open slightly for cold starts.  The OP noted that doing so fixed the problem for him. 

From Page 92:
"For cold starts and at low ambient temperatures: pull the lever to disengage the clutch and twist the throttle grip slightly."

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wbw6cos

Thanks Bill.   I was on the jon reading my owner's manual and, by golly, it says the same thing for the Shift Cam motor.

 

 

 

 

Capture.PNG

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Would twisting the throttle be the same as using number 5 in this picture. The old enrichment lever. :dontknow: Is this the “less is more” thing going on here? :classic_biggrin:

image.png.d8a59f9190fc3b3bbea645750277a279.png

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Paul De

Isn't the Wethead throttle drive by wire?  Lever 5 would need to be a dimmer switch.  BMW prolly couldn't fit it on the handlebar

image0.jpg

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Bill_Walker
On 6/13/2021 at 4:59 PM, TEWKS said:

Would twisting the throttle be the same as using number 5 in this picture.

Seems like the same function, but as Paul De points out, the Wethead is ride-by-wire, so it could interpret that opening any way that suited it.  

 

It seems weird that a modern EFI engine needs any help from the rider.  Hell, it seemed weird on my 2004 RT!

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PastorJay

I wanted to wait a few days before reporting on the new battery install. Dirtrider had it right. Since replacing the battery she fires right up just as it did when I purchased the bike in February. The manual  states that I would have to reset the time and date but I did not have to. Took me fifteen minutes to install fired right up and off I went. Loving it. 

Thanks to all for the information. 

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Bill_Walker
On 6/19/2021 at 4:50 PM, PastorJay said:

Dirtrider had it right.

He usually does.  But my '15 has had this symptom on cold starts often (but not always!), ever since I got it in '17, presumably with the original battery.  Which it still has, and which has shown no signs of weakness otherwise.  I do keep it on a tender.

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dirtrider
1 hour ago, Bill_Walker said:

He usually does.  But my '15 has had this symptom on cold starts often (but not always!), ever since I got it in '17, presumably with the original battery.  Which it still has, and which has shown no signs of weakness otherwise.  I do keep it on a tender.

Afternoon Bill

 

The difference is that your 2015 has always been like that. (that doesn't completely eliminate the battery but more points to other things)

 

PastorJay's motorcycle just started doing it after it seemed to be working OK for a long time. 

 

 

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