Replacing Camchain - 2015 R1200 GS

[MalA]

Hi All

has anyone replaced a Camchain without splitting the cases?

The camchain is Regina C109 chain.

I was wondering if anyone knows where its possible to buy this chain by length, along with links?

Before anyone jumps in with "but its an endless chain", I believe it should be easy enough job to do by splitting the existing chain, fitting a link, feeding the new chain through the crankcase, and then installing a permanent link at the end of the process. Have done this a number of times with drivechain on other bikes. Same principle.

I purchased this bike damaged. LHS valve cover smashed, camchain sprocket broken, plus other bits and pieces damaged. Everything is fixed and its running, but I am a little concerned that the camchain may be unevenly stretched as its quite noisy on that side. It wont take long to destroy the camchain tensioner if it is.

I dont want to go down the path of a full crankcase split if I dont have to.

Hoping someone can help.

Cheers

Mal

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, MalA said:

Hi All

has anyone replaced a Camchain without splitting the cases?

The camchain is Regina C109 chain.

I was wondering if anyone knows where its possible to buy this chain by length, along with links?

Before anyone jumps in with "but its an endless chain", I believe it should be easy enough job to do by splitting the existing chain, fitting a link, feeding the new chain through the crankcase, and then installing a permanent link at the end of the process. Have done this a number of times with drivechain on other bikes. Same principle.

I purchased this bike damaged. LHS valve cover smashed, camchain sprocket broken, plus other bits and pieces damaged. Everything is fixed and its running, but I am a little concerned that the camchain may be unevenly stretched as its quite noisy on that side. It wont take long to destroy the camchain tensioner if it is.

I dont want to go down the path of a full crankcase split if I dont have to.

Hoping someone can help.

Cheers

Mal

Morning  MalA

 

I seriously doubt the cam chain is stretched but it could have a damaged area.

 

You might be able to make up a simple adjustable (manual) chain tensioner for that side. Then install that adjustable tensioner, then set it to have (just) a snug chain,  then roll the engine over while checking the chain for becoming loose or tighter in some areas.    

 

Is the cam chain tensioner in good shape  & doing it's job? (this would be the first place that I looked).

 

Next, would be cam chain guide damage (tips can break off of the cam chain guides), then the cam chain gets plenty noisy. 

 

Now, to (try) to answer your cam chain question. I don't know of anyone that has split a cam chain on the 1200 wethead then installed a new chain with a master link. I have heard of that being done on the BMW 700/800  engines so in theory it is possible. You might find a new or "good used" stock cam chain then split that but where to find a new master link I don't know. 

 

If you do manage to find parts & do the chain replacement please post back here & let us know where you sourced the parts & how the job turned out.   

[Paul De]

+1 on posting the results.   Guess you are the guy in front of the group in tall grass. May your machete be sharp!

[MalA]

13 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  MalA

 

I seriously doubt the cam chain is stretched but it could have a damaged area.

 

You might be able to make up a simple adjustable (manual) chain tensioner for that side. Then install that adjustable tensioner, then set it to have (just) a snug chain,  then roll the engine over while checking the chain for becoming loose or tighter in some areas.    

 

Is the cam chain tensioner in good shape  & doing it's job? (this would be the first place that I looked).

 

Next, would be cam chain guide damage (tips can break off of the cam chain guides), then the cam chain gets plenty noisy. 

 

Now, to (try) to answer your cam chain question. I don't know of anyone that has split a cam chain on the 1200 wethead then installed a new chain with a master link. I have heard of that being done on the BMW 700/800  engines so in theory it is possible. You might find a new or "good used" stock cam chain then split that but where to find a new master link I don't know. 

 

If you do manage to find parts & do the chain replacement please post back here & let us know where you sourced the parts & how the job turned out.   

Hi DR

Damage (stretching) in one part of the chain is what I was getting at.

I like your idea of the manual tensioner to check if its unevenly stretched, I hadn't thought of that. This weekends job to fabricate one if I can.

Everything else is as it should be and undamaged. I'm sure everyone can understand my concern about an unevenly stretched chain. For every revolution of the chain, the hydraulic tensioner would have to move in and out and I am sure that would prematurely wear it out.

I will keep you posted if I still need to go down the path of chain replacement, and what I find out about sourcing chain.

Regards

Mal

[Paul4450]

Hello MalA,

I’ve used A&S Motorcycles in Roseville CA as they seem to sell at msrp. Apparently the left chain is longer than the right. Here is the link to the parts- https://www.ascycles.com/bmw/2013/R1200GS/Engine/Timing-valve train-Timing chain-Camshaft.html#PartsTable

 

Cheers,

Paul

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, MalA said:

Hi DR

Damage (stretching) in one part of the chain is what I was getting at.

I like your idea of the manual tensioner to check if its unevenly stretched, I hadn't thought of that. This weekends job to fabricate one if I can.

Everything else is as it should be and undamaged. I'm sure everyone can understand my concern about an unevenly stretched chain. For every revolution of the chain, the hydraulic tensioner would have to move in and out and I am sure that would prematurely wear it out.

I will keep you posted if I still need to go down the path of chain replacement, and what I find out about sourcing chain.

Regards

Mal

Morning  MalA

 

Chains like the BMW cam chain just don't stretch (at least I haven't seen one stretch). They can break & they can wear but stretching is questionable. 

 

You might be able to put a solid rod (or cut off drill bit) inside your stock tensioner then use that as a manual tensioner.

 

Don't forget to check the chain guides for broken tips as that can easily cause a noisy chain. 

 

As for a new/good used chain, usually E-Bay first then if no luck a BMW dealer.   

[MalA]

Hi Dirtrider

Well, I made up a manual tensioner by placing a piece of Aluminium rod inside the stock tensioner, instead of the spring, as you suggested.

Did it up finger tight to place enough tension on the chain/guide, and turned the engine over using the back wheel in 6th gear.

There is an obvious point in the chain where it is unevenly stretched. To the point that it goes from firm chain tension, to slack, and it can be moved without it returning to the previous position (if that makes sense).

Bugger!!!!!!!!! It definitely needs to be replaced!

I can see why it may have happened.The bike was dropped on its LHS, and if the engine continued to turn over as the cam sprocket was caught and bent, it may have caused localised stretching.

Anyway, back to my original idea of replacing the chain without splitting the cases.

I have an enquiry in with Regina in the UK to see if its possible to buy the chain by the length.

I will keep you posted to see how it goes, as I am sure this wont be the last time that camchain replacement crops up.

Cheers

Mal

[BlackTopMedia]

Hi all, i saw this and thought i had to reply.

'Stretch' is a term that is used to describe wear, typically in the bearing areas; pin and bush. That causes elongation which is often described as stretch. For a chain to actually stretch, the sideplates would have to stretch, which doesn't happen, the metal is hardened and doesn't stretch.

A common failure point of overloaded chains is a broken sideplate. The weakest spot on a chain (apart from the joining link) is the part between the pin hole and the outside of the sideplate. If a chain is overloaded, it will likely fail at this point.

I have seen a really abused 530 drag bike chain that had bent the pins! The chain hadn't actually let go, but it was so badly overloaded that it had actually bent all of the pins as the chain cycled.

Timing chains are really over spec'd and well lubricated, designed to last a long time with no additional maintenance, so usually last a very long time. If you have wear in only one area, that sounds odd. Maybe bent sprocket? I'm not sure how the chain would wear in only one area. I'm really interested to see how this turns out.....

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, MalA said:

Hi Dirtrider

Well, I made up a manual tensioner by placing a piece of Aluminium rod inside the stock tensioner, instead of the spring, as you suggested.

Did it up finger tight to place enough tension on the chain/guide, and turned the engine over using the back wheel in 6th gear.

There is an obvious point in the chain where it is unevenly stretched. To the point that it goes from firm chain tension, to slack, and it can be moved without it returning to the previous position (if that makes sense).

Bugger!!!!!!!!! It definitely needs to be replaced!

I can see why it may have happened.The bike was dropped on its LHS, and if the engine continued to turn over as the cam sprocket was caught and bent, it may have caused localised stretching.

Anyway, back to my original idea of replacing the chain without splitting the cases.

I have an enquiry in with Regina in the UK to see if its possible to buy the chain by the length.

I will keep you posted to see how it goes, as I am sure this wont be the last time that camchain replacement crops up.

Cheers

Mal

Morning Mal

 

The chain itself stretching is almost unbelievable so do eliminate all other contributors before blaming the chain itself.  

 

Is it possible that the valve spring load as the valves open is placing more load on the chain "drive" side therefore tightening up the drive side but then allowing some play in the slack side?  (personally I would want to understand or eliminate this possibility) 

 

Try the manual chain adjuster on the other (good side) to see if it acts the same or acts differently! This should prove out the valve spring loading as a contributor to your slack change.

 

Any chance the sprocket on either end has runout due to a bent shaft or bent mounting flange ????? You might try cranking the engine (spark plugs removed) then watch the outer cam sprocket for wobble or runout as it rotates. 

 

 

[MalA]

Hi Blacktopmedia

The problem is as a result of accident damage, as I explained in my original post, so that puts paid to any consideration of normal wear and tear and lubrication.

The damaged camshaft sprocket was replaced with new and runs true.

No sideplates are broken, as I carefully went through the chain in-situ. Is there any way of telling if the pins are damaged, as you described, without removing the chain?

The "stretched" spot on the chain appears once per revolution of the chain, rather than revoultions of the sprockets, which hints to me of chain, rather than sprocket failure.

Regards

Mal

 

[MalA]

Hi DR

you have given me a couple of other things to check. I was already planning to check the RHS to see what it does. Im going to try and record both sides as I do it to see if I can notice anything.

Regards

Mal