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Persistent TPS 1215 Fault


Michaelr11

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Michaelr11

My 2001 R1100RT suddenly developed a problem. I have done a few maintenance items, and the problem is mostly fixed, but the ECU is showing a 1215 Throttle Position Sensor fault, and it continues to show up, even though I have cleared it.

 

Here’s the long version.  My RT is well maintained, by me, regularly. It has over 200k miles, most of them mine. 
About 1,000 miles ago, the motor stalled when I pulled in the clutch coming up to a light. The bike started up again, no problem, but since then the idle has been rough and below 900 rpm. I had to keep pressure on the throttle to keep the rpm up to avoid stalling.

 

Ran a tank with Techron in it. Always use non-ethanol 90 or 93 gas, and use the same gas in my other bikes with no issues.

Replaced the spark plugs with new 3923 Autolites. No change.

Checked for faults with a GS-911 3-pin , which showed the 1215 TPS fault.

Checked the TPS with the GS-911 and also a voltmeter. It tested okay, but I ordered another TPS anyway.

Replaced the TPS, set the idle voltage with a voltmeter to .360 mv and confirmed with the GS-911. Still won’t idle.

Checked valve clearances, they were good.

Removed the big brass screws, cleaned them, and thoroughly cleaned the air bypass ports. Initial setting for the screws, set to 1 1/2 turns out. Sync the throttle bodies, was now able to set idle. Set it a little high, about 1200 rpm.

 

 I have a spare set of 1100 injectors, that I sent out for cleaning and flow testing. They will be back next week.
Bought a low mileage O2 sensor which I will install when the tank comes off for a fuel filter.

 I have a spare ECU, bought used. 
 

I can’t get rid of the 1215 fault code. I clear codes, then read codes and the 1215 is there. Bike starts easily, and it runs great.

 

Michael, Trinity NC

R1100RT,  R60/6, R100

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1 hour ago, Michaelr11 said:

My 2001 R1100RT suddenly developed a problem. I have done a few maintenance items, and the problem is mostly fixed, but the ECU is showing a 1215 Throttle Position Sensor fault, and it continues to show up, even though I have cleared it.

 

Here’s the long version.  My RT is well maintained, by me, regularly. It has over 200k miles, most of them mine. 
About 1,000 miles ago, the motor stalled when I pulled in the clutch coming up to a light. The bike started up again, no problem, but since then the idle has been rough and below 900 rpm. I had to keep pressure on the throttle to keep the rpm up to avoid stalling.

 

Ran a tank with Techron in it. Always use non-ethanol 90 or 93 gas, and use the same gas in my other bikes with no issues.

Replaced the spark plugs with new 3923 Autolites. No change.

Checked for faults with a GS-911 3-pin , which showed the 1215 TPS fault.

Checked the TPS with the GS-911 and also a voltmeter. It tested okay, but I ordered another TPS anyway.

Replaced the TPS, set the idle voltage with a voltmeter to .360 mv and confirmed with the GS-911. Still won’t idle.

Checked valve clearances, they were good.

Removed the big brass screws, cleaned them, and thoroughly cleaned the air bypass ports. Initial setting for the screws, set to 1 1/2 turns out. Sync the throttle bodies, was now able to set idle. Set it a little high, about 1200 rpm.

 

 I have a spare set of 1100 injectors, that I sent out for cleaning and flow testing. They will be back next week.
Bought a low mileage O2 sensor which I will install when the tank comes off for a fuel filter.

 I have a spare ECU, bought used. 
 

I can’t get rid of the 1215 fault code. I clear codes, then read codes and the 1215 is there. Bike starts easily, and it runs great.

 

Michael, Trinity NC

R1100RT,  R60/6, R100

Evening  Michael

 

That 1215 is showing   (Throttle Position Sensor out of range).

 

Is your voltmeter accurate?  (the voltmeter also can not put a lot of load on the TPS output or it can skew the voltage readings) 

 

Was the Choke definitely OFF when you set the TPS?

 

Are you getting a clean SMOOTH voltage sweep on both the outputs?  __

 

Key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 1 and 4   then s-l-o-w-l-y  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should scroll smoothly from just under 0.4v to 5v between pins (1 & 4) for the first 1/4 of rotation.

 

Next, key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 3 and 4   then again slowly  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should go smoothly from 0v to 5v between pins (3 & 4) from closed throttle to wide open throttle

 

White/red wire is pin #1  (low throttle)

Green/yellow wire is pin #2  (B+)

White/gray wire is pin #3  (High Throttle)

Brown/gray wire is pin #4  (low/ ground)

 

If all OK per above try setting the base voltage to 3.75v then see if your code 1215 goes away.

 

If still not working correctly give me a holler back then I will send you a possible TPS verification test that you can run through the diagnostic connector, this might tell you if your TPS is set somewhat close.  (I will have to dig it up from my shop computer tomorrow). 

 

Any chance that you have a damaged/loose TPS connector terminal pin  (motorcycle side). I usually do a terminal pin drag test to verify this but that takes a single male TPS side terminal. 

 

I have seen damaged/loose harness terminals caused by someone sticking things in/between the terminals in order to get a place to hook a voltmeter.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Michaelr11
11 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

That 1215 is showing   (Throttle Position Sensor out of range).

 

Thanks for the response DR.

 

Is your voltmeter accurate?   Only have one DVM so no other to compare it against.  GS-911 TPS Test says the idle setting is in range.  Battery in the DVM is new.

 

Was the Choke definitely OFF when you set the TPS?  YES.

 

Are you getting a clean SMOOTH voltage sweep on both the outputs?   I only tested the voltage on Pin 1,  Yes, clean, smooth voltage changes up, then down.

 

Key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 1 and 4   then s-l-o-w-l-y  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should scroll smoothly from just under 0.4v to 5v between pins (1 & 4) for the first 1/4 of rotation.  YES. 

 

Next, key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 3 and 4   then again slowly  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should go smoothly from 0v to 5v between pins (3 & 4) from closed throttle to wide open throttle.  Did not test Pin 3.   Tupperware is back on, so it might be a little while to test that.

 

Persistent 1215 TPS error occurred with BOTH of the TPS units; the original, and the one I bought (used, low mileage).  The idle issue was just that, low idle only.  Bike ran great at all rpm above idle.  After cleaning air bypass ports and screws, bike idle is okay, just can't clear the 1215.  Bike runs great (for a 220k mile bike).

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7 minutes ago, Michaelr11 said:

Thanks for the response DR.

 

Is your voltmeter accurate?   Only have one DVM so no other to compare it against.  GS-911 TPS Test says the idle setting is in range.  Battery in the DVM is new.

 

Was the Choke definitely OFF when you set the TPS?  YES.

 

Are you getting a clean SMOOTH voltage sweep on both the outputs?   I only tested the voltage on Pin 1,  Yes, clean, smooth voltage changes up, then down.

 

Key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 1 and 4   then s-l-o-w-l-y  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should scroll smoothly from just under 0.4v to 5v between pins (1 & 4) for the first 1/4 of rotation.  YES. 

 

Next, key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 3 and 4   then again slowly  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should go smoothly from 0v to 5v between pins (3 & 4) from closed throttle to wide open throttle.  Did not test Pin 3.   Tupperware is back on, so it might be a little while to test that.

 

Persistent 1215 TPS error occurred with BOTH of the TPS units; the original, and the one I bought (used, low mileage).  The idle issue was just that, low idle only.  Bike ran great at all rpm above idle.  After cleaning air bypass ports and screws, bike idle is okay, just can't clear the 1215.  Bike runs great (for a 220k mile bike).

Evening  Michael

 

I'm not sure what to tell you, you probably should do a 3-4 sweep test just to eliminate that.

 

You might try a fuse #5 removal for about 1/2 hour (that should be easy to do with Tupperware still on). I'm not sure that will help but it is easy enough to try. 

 

Was there a redundant ground wire attached to the L/H throttle body?   If so is it still connected?

 

I won't be back on this site  until tomorrow so this is all I have to offer tonight.

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Michaelr11

Evening DR.

 

 I pulled fuse 5 overnight last night. Installed it this morning and checked for faults and the 1215 was there.  
 

Does pulling that fuse clear the Motronic fault codes, the same as the GS-911 clear codes function?

 

 I will do the 3-4 voltage sweep and also check for the ground wire on the left throttle body. I am sure that the ground is attached, but I will confirm that. Probably be over the weekend.

 

I just want to add one other item that I tried. 

Before swapping the TPS, early on, I pulled the CCP - thinking that my 220K O2 sensor might be shot. While it didn't fix the idle problem, it did eliminate all popping from the exhaust during chopped throttle deceleration.  Now that the idle seems fixed, I put the CCP back in, popping resumed.  Is there any downside to leaving the CCP out?  As I said earlier, I plan on replacing my O2 sensor with a low mileage one, but that will be in another 1,000 miles when I pull the tank.

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9 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

Evening DR.

 

 I pulled fuse 5 overnight last night. Installed it this morning and checked for faults and the 1215 was there.  
 

Does pulling that fuse clear the Motronic fault codes, the same as the GS-911 clear codes function?

 

 I will do the 3-4 voltage sweep and also check for the ground wire on the left throttle body. I am sure that the ground is attached, but I will confirm that. Probably be over the weekend.

 

I just want to add one other item that I tried. 

Before swapping the TPS, early on, I pulled the CCP - thinking that my 220K O2 sensor might be shot. While it didn't fix the idle problem, it did eliminate all popping from the exhaust during chopped throttle deceleration.  Now that the idle seems fixed, I put the CCP back in, popping resumed.  Is there any downside to leaving the CCP out?  As I said earlier, I plan on replacing my O2 sensor with a low mileage one, but that will be in another 1,000 miles when I pull the tank.

Morning  Michael

 

Removing fuse #5 on the Ma 2.2 system should clear the trapped fault codes. Doesn't mean they will stay away at next key-on if there is an inherent fault.  

 

You can leave the CCP out, that will then richen the base idle fueling, & richen the fueling just above idle but still fuel OK in the midrange up. 

 

On some BMW 1100 bikes that were sold in other countries they did come from the factory with no CPP & no o2 sensor. Those motorcycles had an idle trim potentiometer on the L/H side to lean the idle fueling slightly to lower Co. emissions.   Your present 1100 should still have that Co. pot harness & connector on the L/H side about mid motorcycle so an idle trim potentiometer could be added if you leave the CCP removed. 

 

It's that slightly over-rich idle & slightly rich just above idle that helps remove the light-throttle low-load surging as that richens that throttle area. 

 

Back in the 1100 era a lot of us 1100 riders just removed the CCP & ran the motorcycle that way, they did run a bit rich at idle & at lower throttle openings but the surging was reduced significantly & they did run good that way. 

 

On a couple of my 1100 bikes I added the idle trim potentiometer to lean the idle fueling out a little but by the time I adjusted them to the best running  (least surging) condition they were back close to what running no idle trim potentiometer was doing. 

 

 

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Michaelr11
On 5/27/2021 at 6:45 PM, dirtrider said:

Key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 1 and 4   ...............................

 

 

Key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 1 and 4   then s-l-o-w-l-y  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should scroll smoothly from just under 0.4v to 5v between pins (1 & 4) for the first 1/4 of rotation.  I checked voltage between pin 1 and frame ground.  Initial voltage was set to .380 and went up smoothly to about 4.77 volts.

 

Next, key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 3 and 4   then again slowly  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should go smoothly from 0v to 5v between pins (3 & 4) from closed throttle to wide open throttle  I checked voltage between pin 3 and frame ground.  Initial voltage reading was measured at .03 volts and went up smoothly to about 3.83 volts.

 

Still getting 1215 TPS Fault.  I tried to verify the fault code by reading with an LED to the diagnostic port.  Not sure what part of the procedure didn't work, but I couldn't trigger the LED pulses from Pin 1. I followed the procedure, tested the LED to B+, it lights, so not sure if the LED isn't making contact to Pin 1, or if the ground wire to Pin 1 isn't working.  But 3-pin GS-911 connects to diagnostic and gives fault codes and TPS range test (okay).

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Michaelr11 said:

 

Key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 1 and 4   then s-l-o-w-l-y  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should scroll smoothly from just under 0.4v to 5v between pins (1 & 4) for the first 1/4 of rotation.  I checked voltage between pin 1 and frame ground.  Initial voltage was set to .380 and went up smoothly to about 4.77 volts.

 

Next, key on, engine not running, CHOKE OFF-- Put your meter between pins 3 and 4   then again slowly  rotate  throttle TB cam open.  It should go smoothly from 0v to 5v between pins (3 & 4) from closed throttle to wide open throttle  I checked voltage between pin 3 and frame ground.  Initial voltage reading was measured at .03 volts and went up smoothly to about 3.83 volts.

 

Still getting 1215 TPS Fault.  I tried to verify the fault code by reading with an LED to the diagnostic port.  Not sure what part of the procedure didn't work, but I couldn't trigger the LED pulses from Pin 1. I followed the procedure, tested the LED to B+, it lights, so not sure if the LED isn't making contact to Pin 1, or if the ground wire to Pin 1 isn't working.  But 3-pin GS-911 connects to diagnostic and gives fault codes and TPS range test (okay).

 

 

Evening  Michael

 

Those high voltages seem low, 

 

Try putting your voltmeter between #2 & #4 in the TPS connector (TPS disconnected) you want to see 5 volts, or pretty darn close to 5v anyhow).

 

You really should be making your voltage measurements to the #4 terminal instead of ground as the #4 circuit returns to the Motronic 5v low. 

 

You might also see if you can get to 5v  between #1 - #4  & between  #3  - #4  by reaching in with your finger & moving the TPS lever to move it farther than the throttle cam will advance it.    

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Michaelr11

I will check these and report back.  My TPS connector appears to be a hard plastic or rubber. There doesn’t appear to be any soft rubber boot that can be pulled away to allow a pin or paper clip to be inserted for voltage testing.  Instead I have to lay a wire into the open connector and then close the connector- makes for an iffy connection.  The fairing went back on this morning, so it has to come off again to access the TPS.  I wonder if I could have too much free play in the cables, so that the throttle plate never gets to its limit. I think the free play is tight enough,, but don’t know how much it would take to get to 5 volts.

 

 I have read several different suggestions for the initial voltage setting.  It appears that any setting between.330 and.385 will fall into the Motronic correct setting. If I change it from.360 to.380 will there be any noticeable difference?

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11 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

I will check these and report back.  My TPS connector appears to be a hard plastic or rubber. There doesn’t appear to be any soft rubber boot that can be pulled away to allow a pin or paper clip to be inserted for voltage testing.  Instead I have to lay a wire into the open connector and then close the connector- makes for an iffy connection.  The fairing went back on this morning, so it has to come off again to access the TPS.  I wonder if I could have too much free play in the cables, so that the throttle plate never gets to its limit. I think the free play is tight enough,, but don’t know how much it would take to get to 5 volts.

 

 I have read several different suggestions for the initial voltage setting.  It appears that any setting between.330 and.385 will fall into the Motronic correct setting. If I change it from.360 to.380 will there be any noticeable difference?

Morning Michael

 

   I have read several different suggestions for the initial voltage setting.  It appears that any setting between.330 and.385 will fall into the Motronic correct setting. If I change it from.360 to.380 will there be any noticeable difference?--  Yes, no, maybe so,  .330v is pretty low so you will probably notice that when in open loop or cold engine  operation.  .360-.370v is probably about right if you still have the original CCP & using the o2 sensor as that puts the dropped throttle fuel shut-off in a good place.  If running open loop all the time (no CCP) then .385v (or slightly above) seemed to work best on my old 1100 motorcycles. (never go over .399v, so .385v is usually a safe max & still have a little safety factor)

 

On the TPS setting, way back in the old 1100 days I originally used 4 different colored 22 gage wires about 4" long with terminals on the ends of the wires that somewhat matched the BMW harness & TPS terminals. On the center of each wire  I made a bare spot about about 3/8" long that I could hook my voltmeter to. I would install the 4 wires between the removed TPS & the TPS harness connector.  This worked great & gave me good (damage free) access to the TPS circuit. 

 

I finally made a dedicated break-out box from an old TPS & a removed TPS harness connector (just plugs in between the TPS & motorcycle harness connector). This is the way to go if you do a lot of TPS work. 

 

Are you manually turning the throttle body cam all the way from choke-off idle to wide open throttle? This is how you need to do it, do not just twist the twist grip as that can be unreliable as far as TPS full range travel goes. 

 

 

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Michaelr11
4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Are you manually turning the throttle body cam all the way from choke-off idle to wide open throttle? This is how you need to do it, do not just twist the twist grip as that can be unreliable as far as TPS full range travel goes. 

 

I have been testing voltage sweep and maximum range by twisting the throttle.  When I strip the fairing off again, I will test the voltage by manually turning the pulley. 

I will try to get a wire onto the pin 4 connection to confirm the voltage reading is the same as it is with frame grounding.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I try to make sure a post gets "completed".  Don't like to read a thread and find out that the OP never posted a conclusion. So, I will try to bring this one to a close.

 

Sorry for the delay.  In addition to working on this issue, I had a few scheduled items to take care of, so it took a little while to get the bike and the components ready.

Next, this will be inconclusive, only because I did several items all together.  If you have worked on an 1100RT, you will understand. I wasn't going to change one part at a time, then replace the gas tank to test the bike, then remove the tank to replace another part.  So, they got done together.

 

I removed the gas tank, and I replaced the fuel filter (it had nearly 30k miles).  Gas that came out of the old filter wasn't bad looking.  Checked all hoses and connections.

Replaced the original O2 sensor with a low mileage eBay O2 sensor from an 1100RT.

Gas tank reinstalled and filled with 90 octane non-ethanol gas.

Replaced both fuel injectors with a spare set of injectors that were just professionally cleaned and tested.

Throttle bodies were cleaned. Air bypass screws and ports were cleaned.

Throttle bodies were synced at idle and above idle using a Harmonizer.  Set idle to around 1200 rpm.

 

Tested TPS, pin 2 to 4 - 4.93 volts.  Also checked pin 2 to frame ground - 4.93 volts.

Tested sweep of pin 3 again.  Still sweeps incrementally from 0 to 3.84 volts.  Even though this appears to be low, throttle response is excellent.

 

Using the 3-Pin interface GS-911, I checked codes, without clearing.  1215 was still there along with two HES codes.

Cleared codes.

Ran the TPS Adjustment check with GS-911.  The TPS is correctly adjusted. Here's a possible issue. When starting the TPS test, the test box is grey. You have to move the throttle slightly to get the "correct" indicator. But, once that it done initially, the test shows the TPS setting is correct with the throttle completely closed.

Cleared codes again.

Checked codes again. The 1215 TPS Sensor Fault is GONE.  Only the two HES codes are present (normal).

 

Rode the bike today 120 miles.  Idle is good, with clutch lever pulled in, and also in Neutral with clutch lever released.  There is a slight dip in the idle when the clutch is pulled in and throttle chopped approaching a stop sign. Idle drops below 1200 but then comes back up to 1200.  There is some exhaust popping when engine braking. Not bad, but would rather not have it.  Might try removing the CCP again to see if that eliminates it.

 

So, I'm calling the low idle issue fixed.  I'm not sure if the TPS 1215 fault code was ever a real issue.

 

InjectorRx_Report_06012021.jpg

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